Recorded: September 1, 2022

Successful corporate mental health speaker Mike Veny is this week’s guest on Snap Out of It! The Mental Illness in the Workplace Podcast with Natasha Tracy. Mike is now a Certified Corporate Wellness Specialist®, but just five years ago, Mike was suffering from a mental health breakdown thanks to depression and anxiety. While now, Mike talks to corporations about mental wellness for their employees, only a few years ago, life was showing him, personally, what it was like when that isn’t taken care of. This video podcast conversation revolves around that mental breakdown and around Mike’s current thoughts about mental illness in the workplace.

After a Mental Health Breakdown

Mike and I discuss things like:

• What having a mental health breakdown in your workplace is like
• How Mike came back from a mental health breakdown
• How Mike became a successful mental health speaker
• Mike’s thoughts on mental illness in the workplace today

Whether you want to understand what mental illness in the workplace really looks like, are a fan of Mike’s, or want to protect your employee’s wellbeing at work, this podcast episode is for you.

This episode is now available across podcast platforms like:

• Spotify (follows)
• Apple Podcasts
• Google Podcast
• Stitcher

Mike Veny’s Bio

Mike Veny‘s path to becoming a speaker became evident at an early age. He convinced the staff at psychiatric hospitals to discharge him three times during his childhood. In addition to being hospitalized as a child, he was expelled from three schools, attempted suicide, and was medicated in an effort to reduce his emotional instability and behavioral outbursts.

By the fifth grade, Mike was put in a special education class. Aside from getting more individualized attention from the teacher, he learned that pencil erasers make great sounds when tapped on a desk. He had no idea that drumming would become his career or his path to recovery.

As an adult, Mike spent many years facilitating drum workshops for children with special needs, teaching them to channel their energy by banging a drum while also learning how to listen, focus, work together and succeed through teamwork. The project was such a hit that he continued to expand his drumming program, first to adults in recovery and eventually into the corporate setting.

As a Certified Corporate Wellness Specialist®, Mike’s presentations move past simply educating an audience to provide them with actionable steps they can take to change their lives and work environments. His reputation as a dynamic speaker provides confidence and peace of mind for meeting planners everywhere.

The mission of his company, Mike Veny, Inc., is to support you in receiving the gift of emotional wellness through unique learning experiences designed to empower your personal and professional growth. The International Association for Continuing Education and Training has awarded his company the prestigious Accredited Provider accreditation for its continuing education programs.

Transcript

Natasha Tracy (00:02):

Hi folks. Welcome to “Snap Out of It! The Mental Illness in the Workplace Podcast” with me, Natasha Tracy. Today we are talking with Mike Veny, and he is a very successful corporate mental health speaker and the winner of Corporate Live Wires 2022 Innovation and Excellence Award for his work as a Certified Corporate Wellness Specialist. Mike is fiercely committed to empowering employees to discover the gift of emotional wellness so they can accelerate personal and professional growth. Mike, however, also has his own mental illness and has suffered a mental illness breakdown.

Natasha Tracy (00:38):

I want to remind our audience that this is a live stream, so pop your questions for Mike into the comment box at any time, and they might just be answered during the podcast. But before we get to Mike, I just wanna remind people that workplace mental health is very important and Mike talks about it all the time, in fact, in his presentations. But we’re actually here specifically to talk about mental illness at work.

Natasha Tracy (01:01):

Now, approximately one in five people have a diagnosable mental illness, but these people often get let out, left out of the conversation when it comes to mental health at work. So that’s why we want to shine a spotlight on those people.

Natasha Tracy (01:15):

Hi Mike. Welcome to “Snap Out of It!”

Mike Veny (01:18):

Hey, Natasha, and hello to your listeners and viewers.

Natasha Tracy (01:23):

So let’s just start out with a little bit about you.

Mike Veny (01:25):

Okay. What would you like to know about me?

Natasha Tracy (01:28):

Oh let’s just give us a general background what you’re doing today and just tell us whatever you’d like us to know.

Mike Veny (01:35):

Whatever I’d like you to know. Well, first of all thank you for having me on the show. I’m really honored to be here. And I am a mental health speaker. It’s one of the many hats that I wear. I am booked traveling around this country, the United States of America, speaking about mental health at work, and also doing some other things too, indirectly related. I’m, I’m an author and I’m a course creator. Creating courses around workplace mental health and a new product for teachers. And I do this work, not because I wanted to do this work and I was passionate about it, but, you know, it comes from a difficult place. It comes from a very difficult place with my own struggles with mental illness from starting when I was a kid. And so that’s what I’m up to today.

Natasha Tracy (02:22):

So, you said you started experiencing mental illness when you were a kid. What was that like for you?

Mike Veny (02:28):

You know, first of all, I think, you know, my uncle who has a mental illness said to me once, sometimes the hardest thing about a mental illness is hearing that you have a mental illness. And I’ll never forget. And, you know, I, I always knew that I was different. And when, when we talk about mental health in general, in my opinion, we’re talking about three things, thoughts, feelings, and behavior. And behavior is how it usually shows in people where, where people say, okay, something’s going on here and they need to confront you about your behavior, whatever it is. So for me, it just started as behavior problems. I thought I was a bad kid and I would have the very explosive temper tantrums, going to rages, and I just couldn’t control my emotions, you know, they, they would, it, it felt like my body was on fire, literally, you know? And that’s, that’s what I struggled with. And because of that, it led to me getting in a lot of trouble at school, expelled from three schools, hospitalized Wow. In a mental hospital three times for extended periods. And trigger warning here, I just wanna bring this up, but I did attempt to die by suicide at age 10, so I know what it’s like to suffer internally and just feel like it’s just going nowhere.

Natasha Tracy (03:45):

Thank you so much for sharing that. It must be so painful to have those memories, and I appreciate you being so open about them. And I just wanna say to my viewers and listeners people do attempt suicide at age 10, right? Mike just told us that he did. Other children do. Obviously this isn’t the predominant age group when we talk about suicide, but it’s really important to highlight the fact that this does happen. Kids aren’t just being kids. Sometimes it’s much more serious than that. And I just want to really point that out. So thank you for bringing it up.

Mike Veny (04:23):

Thank you. And yeah, I just wanna say nowadays I still struggle. I am fortunate that the behaviors under control. In fact, you and I were talking about before we started recording having to put our professional face on, you know, for, for what we have to do. And, you know, I’m able for the most part to keep it together. But sometimes it’s really, really difficult and sometimes it’s it’s been very debilitating for me to the point where I just basically can’t function, you know? And it’s something I just live with every day.

Natasha Tracy (04:59):

So, as I said in the introduction, you’ve had, and I’m just calling it a mental illness breakdown or a mental health breakdown. That’s just what a colloquially people often call it. And I’m talking about approximately five years ago, you and I discussed this. So can you tell me what your mental health was like just before this happened?

Mike Veny (05:17):

You know, first of all, when, when people ask me about, and I’m sure you get this question, people like, what causes mental illness? Right. And it’s like, I don’t know. Yeah. Any of us knew, like we’d be very wealthy, right? <Laugh>. But I, you know, I can say this, I think for most people it’s, it’s a number of things. It’s not just like one thing. And for me, you know, so I battle with major depressive disorder and at the time, I, I’m not gonna go into specifics, but I was not medicated at the time and I had no medication. I also battle with anxiety and obsessive compulsive disorder to the point where I can’t, I can’t focus, you know, and almost become paranoid sometimes with the obsessing. And in addition to that, there was a major thing that happened in my life. My mom died prior,

Natasha Tracy (06:03):

I’m sorry.

Mike Veny (06:04):

And, and also you know, years before that I had a divorce. And, and, and so let’s just say that’s the start of it right there, you know? And I didn’t cry at my mom’s funeral. Like, I didn’t even cry at my mom’s funeral. And I realized that, you know, I, I, I was going to therapy because you know, talk about it, talk. And I thought I was making progress, but I didn’t realize that certain unresolved trauma was spiraling in my head and just getting worse and worse and worse. And I’ll never forget, I lived in Cub Gardens, Queens, New York. It was a hundred and 17th Street. I know the house, I know the house very well. Okay. Because I remember standing right in front of the house and literally, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a movie where an elevator drops from like the top floor of a building and just slams down at the bottom.

Mike Veny (06:50):

I literally felt that, sure. I had my body, like something go down. And I just knew, I knew what I hit that bottom. I knew what it was, I knew what it was. It was all too familiar, you know? And it was scary in one sense because I knew that I was in a place now where it’s very difficult to come back from now. What do I mean by that? That means something different for everyone. And, you know, breakdown means something different for everyone. But for me, yes. When I was in my breakdown, it was this combination of being emotional and how can I put it, anxious, but also disassociating and losing touch with reality. And this is the part that was very scary for me, where I could be walking down the street and I knew where I was going, but I didn’t know who I was.

Mike Veny (07:33):

I mean, I knew I was Veny, but I just felt like I was in someone else’s body. So I became very confused by things and very paranoid. One of the things that would happen is dogs. And I, I do have a dog now, but, but back then I didn’t have a dog. And I would see a dog on the other side of the street, or a dog walking on the same side of the street as me. And I’d go to the other side, paranoid, making up some story about something gonna happen to me. And that’s, you know that’s a little bit of what I was going through. It’s a tough time.

Natasha Tracy (08:04):

So in your particular case, you would say there was a very specific moment where I’m just gonna say you broke. That’s what you would say?

Mike Veny (08:13):

Well, I, I think, I think at that moment it was like, that was the confirmation that it was here. Okay. And, and there were times where I, you know, I had some bad days before that, you know, okay, I’m having a rough week. But when that moment hit, I’ll never forget it. I think about it all the time.

Natasha Tracy (08:32):

So folks, you are tuned in to “Snap Out of It! The Mental Illness In the Workplace” podcast, I am talking with Mike Veny, a Certified Corporate Wellness Specialist, and someone who also suffers from mental illness. We are talking mental illness breakdowns, and we’re also talking about work. Don’t forget, if you have any questions for Mike, please pop them in the comment box and we may just answer them on air.

Natasha Tracy (08:54):

So, tell me, what was the effect of this particular breakdown? What was the effect of this on your work? Were clients aware of it? What did they do? That kind of thing.

Mike Veny (09:03):

You know, somehow sometimes I think people like you and me like to muscle our way through things sometimes and just try to push it. And I, I don’t know, it’s like rewarded in this society to, to say that you’ve hustled or pushed through something. And sometimes we think our willpower can get us through something, but just, you know, push hard enough. But when it comes to mental illness, you know, sometimes willpower doesn’t matter. And so for me, I would go to my presentations for, fortunately I didn’t have a lot, but the few that I did was really interesting. I’ll never forget, there was one in Michigan for a state conference, so I’m their keynote speaker. And the conference, I remember putting on my suit in the morning and basically lying on the bed, shaking until it was time to go downstairs for my presentation.

Mike Veny (09:52):

Yeah. I got on stage to go speak and I just opened my mouth and started crying. And because it’s mental health, they thought it was like emotional. So they were happy with it. I guess. Like, I don’t even remember what I said. Yeah. And so, so the thing is I think I got through my presentations. It was definitely not me at my best. And I’m sure there were a few where they’re probably never gonna hire me again because of how things came out, <laugh>, you know, so when you battle a a mental illness, it can really affect your work. And this is not like your normal stress thing. And I love that we’re talking about this because I have the better mental podcast where we just talk about mental health mm-hmm. At work, right? And everyone’s got mental health. You know, everyone can experience stress, anxiety, burnout and things like that. And some people might get diagnosed with depression, but there’s a difference when it gets to mental illness, which is a very severe condition. Yes. That’s basically a disability and it’s a whole different set of circumstances.

Natasha Tracy (10:53):

It’s absolutely true that some mental illnesses are extremely serious and some mental illnesses are extremely debilitating and indeed disabilities. I have one, bipolar disorder, and many people have them. There’s approximately 4% of people in the population that actually have what we call a serious mental illness, which is, so it’s a much smaller percentage than people who just have a diagnosable mental illness. So, those things are a bit separate, but absolutely true. And you know, as much as people with mental illness can be left out of the conversation, people with serious mental illness are almost always left out of the conversation because for some reason people think we don’t exist at work. But this of course is not remotely true. I’ve been in the workplace, many other people have been in the workplace. You know, we work right next to you. That’s what we do. You just don’t know that we’re there.

Natasha Tracy (11:47):

Did you have to actually go in front of a client who had actually seen you cry, for example, during a presentation and say anything?

Mike Veny (11:55):

What do you mean by like, say anything?

Natasha Tracy (11:58):

Well, I just mean, did you ever explain your actions, that kind of thing?

Mike Veny (12:03):

No, I, I didn’t, I didn’t even have the awareness to do that. It was just basically like, get out of there as quickly as I can. And I was in survival mode. I was in a, I was in a survival mode because this is my revenue, this is my income, and I gotta keep it together. I’ll never forget, there was one time I was in the mental hospital fortunately where I was living. They had hospital ready, separate psychiatric emergency room. And I’ll never forget like the the nurses there. They were so nice to me. They were trying to make me laugh. They were just trying to, and I just couldn’t, I just couldn’t. And, and I’ll never forget the psychiatrist I saw one of the things that I’ll remember is she was so present with me, like fully right. Sometimes emergency room personnel have a reputation for not being so, so present, I’ll say.

Mike Veny (12:53):

And, and she right, she’s very present. And, and, and it was like, and, and she’s, she’s talking to me and, and she’s going, okay, we gotta get you some help here. This is not good. You know, and, and we’re trying to figure out next steps. And she’s like, well, what do you do for a living? And I’m like, I’m a speaker. And she’s like, have you ever heard of nami, the National Alliance on Mental Illness? I’m like, we need to get me outta here in two weeks cuz I gotta speak at one of other events. Like we get me out of here. So, it was like being in these two worlds at the same time. But I’m grateful because we got me on a better path to, I don’t want to say I, that word recovery is sometimes a hard word because we think of recovery sometimes. It’s like my wrist, it’s better, my wrist is better. But yeah, I’m, I’m just gonna stay a more stable place mentally.

Natasha Tracy (13:38):

And I just want you to know and the viewers and listeners to know, I’ve actually cried during a presentation as well as a professional speaker. It is harrowing to have that happen to you. <Laugh>. In my presentation I do often talk about a suicide attempt. And it’s, it is certainly something that’s very hard to discuss and very hard to bring myself back to that moment. And yeah, I have cried about it on stage and luckily that was years ago, but I just want you to know you are not the only one.

Mike Veny (14:10):

Okay. So you, you’ve been on stage where you feel like the emotions coming up and it’s like, oh no. Oh no. Oh no, I’m speaking <laugh>. Come out <laugh>. Wow.

Natasha Tracy (14:21):

So, once this breakdown occurred, what was the, like you said that you were at work and you were continuing to try to muscle through, which is something that so many of us have tried. Many of us have tried and failed, but many of us have tried. And at that point, what did you do next to get help?

Mike Veny (14:37):

So, this is where it gets really interesting because, you know, in my mind I thought I was getting help that I needed, I had a therapist that I’ve been working with for years. In fact, I got very frustrated with her because I’m like, we’ve been working all this time and why is this now spiraling? You know? It wasn’t until one of my best friends Carmella called me up and I’ve known Carmella since we were in high school. She’s my food buddy. We just saw each other in California, got food together. And I had never heard Carmella crying. And she was crying and she said, I’m worried about you. You need to do something. And that moment I, it really hit me that something was going on that I’m not seeing. You know, and that’s the the thing, when you’re stuck in a difficult place, you might think you know what’s going on, but sometimes people outside of you can see things that you’re not seeing and you gotta, you’ve gotta decide whether, whether they’re trusting or not. And so she said, you know, you need something serious. So she actually she basically said, you need to go to a retreat or some kind of like facility for a long time. And I’m like, whoa, whoa, I gotta speak. I, I got speaking engagements. So, so basically to shut her up, I found the cheapest retreat that I could <laugh>

Natasha Tracy (15:54):

Yep.

Mike Veny (15:54):

And I actually was like, making fun of it in my head. I’m like, you know what? This is just bs. It’s gonna be a bunch of like hippie women with journals and like, you know, we’re gonna meditate and stuff like that. Like, this is not gonna be really like for what I need, but you know what, it’ll shut up Carmella. Right? I did my thing, but I didn’t realize what I was getting into because I was going to a retreat for difficult emotions and trauma.

Natasha Tracy (16:17):

Okay.

Mike Veny (16:19):

And it was at that retreat that I learned about some trauma that needed healing within me. And what was amazing is I walked out of it and for the first time I felt some forgiveness around some things that I knew. And also at the same time, I started seeing a psychiatrist and working on the medication aspect because when it comes to mental health, the mental illness, sometimes people say, you know, are, are your for meds or against meds? It, it doesn’t actually matter. The treatment that we all need is a unique cocktail of things. It’s not one thing. It’s a unique cocktail that’s unique to that particular person in their situation. So for me, it was necessary to get me on certain medication to, to stabilize me. And fortunately we found a few that work and, and for the most part I’ve been stable.

Natasha Tracy (17:08):

Yeah. I, I think the for or against medication thing is really tough for some people to answer. Anyone who’s read my work knows that, yeah, I really do believe in medication for bipolar disorder. It is the case that the vast, vast, vast majority of people with bipolar disorder will need medication. Now, it’s not necessarily the case for every mental illness, of course, as you said what a individual needs is that just that it is individual. So, for example, an anxiety disorder may require a certain type of therapy that a depressive disorder doesn’t require, that kind of thing. And we see that across the spectrum of mental illness.

Natasha Tracy (17:47):

So, you said that the word recovery is a hard word, and I totally agree with you. I’m not even sure I believe in recovery. So, you said that you spend time a little bit more stable today. Is that what you would say?

Mike Veny (18:02):

Yeah, basically my, my psychiatrist and actually I’m totally thinking back to a few years after that. I remember actually speaking to you about something with support groups. You and I had a nice talk about something. One day we were walking in the park in Queens. I mean, we were on the phone, but that’s what I remember. We were in Queens walking in the park. But my psychiatrist, one of the reasons I love her and, and the cool thing about the right mental health professional is that you really start to get understanding about just many things. Not just your own mental health, but health in general. She, she’s such a geek, she draws pictures of the brain.

Natasha Tracy (18:35):

Okay.

Mike Veny (18:36):

Like every session she draws a brain and she explains certain things to me. And I’m just like, I’m thinking in my head like, you were that kid in class that I would’ve been stealing your notes. Like, that’s, that’s totally what I’m, what I’m thinking about. And, and basically she explains some things about my brain based on the conditions that I, that I have and all that happened. And basically she kept drawing a line and said, okay, this is baseline. Where are you? You know, baseline’s like feeling. Okay. Above baseline. Okay, I feel good, feel happy, you know, and below baseline, we all know that I had never gotten even to just the baseline. I never got, I, I didn’t know what that’s like. So, I’m like, I don’t know. Like, I just know the sadness and this anger. So it was really nice when I got to say to her in of all time periods, 2020, how you doing? And I was like, I think, I think I’m okay. Like right now. Like, okay. So that was a big, big moment for me.

Natasha Tracy (19:31):

So, are we talking three years? Is that what we’re talking?

Mike Veny (19:34):

Yeah, it took, it took about three years and and it’s still a process too, you know, it’s still, it’s still a process that I’m looking at. Also, there’s another thing that came into my life was a support group. You and I had actually some talks and, and that’s what actually inspired it. But I found a support group that has worked for me so I can, and look, we all hear it, you’re not alone, but when you actually get to be in the room and talk with people who are going through the exact same thing, sometimes even when you’re in the worst place, you realize you can help someone. And it’s like, it’s, it’s a very empowering experience when you’re in a dark place.

Natasha Tracy (20:12):

Yeah. I think that sometimes. So you said it was about three years until you got to that baseline point. And sometimes people get really scared when they hear it’s gonna be years of work to get to a baseline. But here’s the thing, most of us before we get help, were sick for years. Right? So, like for me, I was sick as, as you said, that you had illness in childhood. So did I. And whether you think that, for example, I was a moody teenager or a sick teenager, certainly I had many problems in my teenage life. And then by the time I actually saw a doctor, I was almost 20 years old. So I had almost 10 years of really nasty kind of strife in my life at that point. And so it makes sense then that it takes years to heal years of illness. And I just wanna say that to people because it’s, it’s important to realize that yes, it can be hard and the work can be really hard and the road can be really long, but it’s extremely worth it. Would you agree with that?

Mike Veny (21:14):

Absolutely. And you know, it’s, it’s a process, not a destination. I think a lot of people think that, okay, if I go to therapy, they’re gonna gimme some prescription or tell me something I need to hear and I’ll be good. No, that, that’s what happens if you break your wrists. You know, <laugh> mental health doesn’t, well actually, it hopefully happens if you break your wrist, but mental health is so confusing, complex and frustrating. It’s a, it’s a journey of self-discovery. You don’t get it in one session, you don’t get it in five sessions. You discover it little by little over time. And sometimes even in that discovery process, it’s up and down. It’s not like a smooth line like this. So that’s when I learned to understand it like that, that was a game changer for me.

Natasha Tracy (21:56):

And I just want to add to that, that while I do tell people that yes, you often need medication, your recovery, your wellness doesn’t come in a pill. You may need medication, but you need other things too. And what we know from the research is that people who get therapy and take medication do better than people who do either of those modalities by themselves. And it’s really important to realize that. And the other thing is that even though it might have taken Mike three years to get to where there was a baseline, it doesn’t mean that the entire three years were terrible. It just means that he was climbing a mountain for three years. Would you say that that’s about right.

Mike Veny (22:36):

Yes. And I’m, I am still climbing that mountain, you know. But again, the, the way I view it is self-discovery. So, rather than looking at, you know, your, mental illness is this, you know, difficult liability, which I know it is, I know it is personally for me, and I know that many people have it worse than me. It’s important to be open to say, okay, there’s some things I need to learn about myself. And that’s what this journey is about. And it’s not a short journey, but the beautiful thing is you discover in the process some amazing things about it yourself too.

Natasha Tracy (23:08):

I totally agree with that. There are wins along the way that you absolutely need to celebrate before you get to anything that looks like a big win. There are little things along the way that are beautiful and amazing and breathtaking that make that big win even better.

Mike Veny (23:24):

Yes, absolutely. And can I just share one that actually was also a contributor to the breakdown and something it’s not really talked about enough? You know, when we’re younger and we have that whole parental upbringing thing that we have to work out in therapy years later, we, yeah, we mimic what happened in childhood with relationships now. And so I would basically be finding myself in just work relationships, friendships, toxic relationships that weren’t a fit for me, that were actually making me worse mentally. And so that was a lesson that I really had to learn, to learn, to be intentional about who I spend my time with and who I even give a minute to because something could trigger me. That’s how sensitive my wiring is in my brain.

Natasha Tracy (24:18):

Thank you. That’s, that’s very well put.

Natasha Tracy (24:22):

We do have a couple of comments that have come in. So Frank says, “hi.” So I just wanna say “hi” to Frank.

Mike Veny (24:27):

Hey Frank.

Natasha Tracy (24:28):

And we are going to get to some questions, so keep sending in those questions in just a little bit.

Natasha Tracy (24:34):

So this is “Snap Out of It! And we are talking with Mike Veny, a renowned mental health speaker, and a person who also has anxiety and depression.

Natasha Tracy (24:43):

Okay. So let’s change the pace just a little bit. What do you think is the biggest issue for people with mental illness in the workplace?

Mike Veny (24:54):

You know, I think, I think I’m gonna say it like this. It’s not one little thing. When we go to work, our very survival is on the line, right? Yep. Money for our home, our food, our basic needs. So even though we have workplaces that say, be authentic, be yourself. We need to be at our best. We need to be at our best. And we want to be seen by others at our best because we know that’s going to be, there’s rewards. And if you’re not seeing that your best guess what you’re, you’re gonna be leaving that job. So, yeah. For many people who struggle with mental illness, they are trying to just hold it together just to, just to get not discovered so they can like, just survive the job, you know? And even then sometimes they, they, they get discovered and so it’s really, it’s really difficult.

Mike Veny (25:50):

It’s really difficult. Also, I think a lot of times people in the workplace don’t know how to interact with different types of people sometimes, you know, let’s take another one, neurodiversity, which is a big type nowadays, someone on the autism spectrum might, you know, 20 years ago they might have been like, okay, that person’s weird. Like, let’s get ’em outta here. Now we’re learning some new tools. So I think there are workplaces that are slowly starting to do it. And this is one of the reasons I love that you’re doing this podcast starting to learn to communicate better with people who have serious mental illness, who are in the workplace so they can thrive.

Natasha Tracy (26:32):

Yeah. Well, I’ve had previous guests who’ve talked a lot about authenticity at work, and I think if you can be authentic at work, that’s beautiful and amazing, but for someone with a serious mental illness or someone who’s sick with any kind of illness, being your authentic self might not be an option because you’re really sick. And I think that it’s important to realize that you’re not a failure if that’s you. It’s often called masking. So you wear a mask instead of showing exactly who you are on that day of that minute. And it’s really, you know, yes, none of us want to do that. None of us want a mask, particularly not 24 hours a day. But it doesn’t mean that at work that doesn’t happen. And it doesn’t mean that you’re a failure if that’s something that you do.

Mike Veny (27:19):

Agreed. And, and the thing is, you know, this whole authenticity thing, sometimes I think it’s a buzzword, Natasha, I think it’s like a buzzword thing we’re using right now, but you know what, we wanna show up at our best to work. We all do. That’s been going on since the beginning of time. Show up at your best, get your job done, do it well. Right. And one of the things that’s starting to happen in the workplace that I’m liking is accommodations are getting a little bit better for someone with a mental illness. And one of the most important ones though, that I promote is actually finding a mentor for someone. Great. A very, a very important one. Because sometimes even someone with a mental illness, just by having the right person to go to at work can be a game changer for everything.

Natasha Tracy (28:06):

That’s a really great piece of advice. Is there any other advice that you would give to people who are looking to improve the workplace for people with mental illness?

Mike Veny (28:16):

Yes. So if, if you’re watching this and you are a decision-maker or a leader at work, sometimes when people hear about the a word accommodations, it’s like uh-oh lawyer, you know we, we gotta watch what we say here. That’s, that’s not a healthy way to go about it. That’s not gonna do anyone any good actually. And sometimes look around the subject of disability and accommodations. You know, there, there are lawsuits, there are things that go wrong, but generally, you know, an accommodation is a win-win situation for you and someone else. So they can work at their best and get what they need done. You, you get the reward of someone being more productive, they get the reward of having that job just work a little bit better for them. And it might be just a very small adjustment on something. So I think it’s really important to embrace accommodations.

Mike Veny (29:10):

Now, let me just say this because there’s another side to this. Okay. Sometimes people, because everyone’s talking about mental health, kind of start to abuse certain things in workplaces, it problems. So, for example one of the things that I’ve warned people about this, you know, look, we all get stressed. That’s, that’s life. And sometimes yes, we do need a mental health day, but if you start needing a mental health day every week, you’re actually hurting the people who really, really need that. And, you know, yeah. What happens is leadership doesn’t wanna take it seriously at that point. So if you really need one, yes, but when you start to just make that excuse, cause you don’t feel like working, you’re actually hurting other people in the workplace.

Natasha Tracy (29:53):

Thank you so much for that. I actually did an interview with a lawyer named Julia Stephanides. I recommend everyone look up that particular podcast regarding accommodations because we talk a lot about what accommodations are and how you should go about trying to get them. So as you said, accommodations can definitely be a win-win scenario for people. And one of our listeners here it’s Anita. She asks specifically about getting accommodations. Is there a way to approach that?

Mike Veny (30:25):

Yes. When you have a conversation, first of all, you don’t need to like, disclose everything. That’s the, that’s the biggest thing. A lot of times, especially in the world of mental health advocacy, we’re used to like throwing it all out there like, oh, story. Yeah, but no, you know, you can simply say, you know, I have a disability and this is what I need. You don’t need to even say it’s a mental illness. And just simply ask for what you need to help make the job better. And, and that’s the important thing. What I recommend that people do when they do ask for an accommodation is before you go into the meeting, try to come up with what you think a reasonable solution would be. That would be a win for both people. And this way you make it actually easier on the other person when you have that conversation.

Natasha Tracy (31:08):

I once went to a corporate retreat actually, because I worked for a big fancy software company. And one of the things I learned that actually was really beneficial was, managers don’t care about the problem. They care about the solution. And I think that’s kind of what you’re saying there, right? The problem is maybe your mental illness, but they don’t actually care about that. What they care about is the solution. You’re gonna bring them that says, I need an accommodation that is the following. And more than likely they’re gonna say it’s okay. And like Mike said, you don’t have to say, I need an accommodation because I have bipolar disorder, because I get manic because I, you don’t have to do that <laugh>, you don’t have to do that, right? You just say, I need an accommodation because I have an illness. This is the accommodation, this is how it’s gonna help me. That’s all you have to do.

Natasha Tracy (31:52):

Okay, so we’ve got a few questions here. So how do you continue to balance this non-linear process of stabilizing your mental health with the responsibilities and stressors of your professional life? And that’s from Mary.

Mike Veny (32:07):

Mary, thank you for this question. Oh gosh. Okay. Mary, how much time do you have for this answer, <laugh>? First of all because of my condition, there’s specific things that I have to do every day. I have to do every day. And even if I do those things a hundred percent, there’s still no guarantee that I might not spiral or, go in a different direction. So I’m very intentional about making sure I do those things every day. And I, I also have learned to put boundaries around certain things at work. So for example I’m gonna be traveling most of the month of September, gonna be in and outta the country, all this stuff. But you know what? I already know when I’m gonna sleep on the plane. You know, I know that when I get to the hotel, make sure I get bottles of water for myself so I stay hydrated. So things like that, and not defaulting to just whatever’s happening around me, you know, learning to say no is a big one too. And, and so these are things that I constantly have to do every day and realize that it’s gonna be imperfect in a little messy sometimes and be okay with that.

Natasha Tracy (33:21):

I love that language, not defaulting, <laugh> to what’s around you. I love that. I think that’s brilliant because what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to craft an environment that’s gonna be best for you. And as you said, that means not defaulting. I love that.

Natasha Tracy (33:36):

So Elizabeth says what are some tips that you would offer on how to find a safe mentor with whom you can be fully vulnerable and transparent about your struggles?

Mike Veny (33:46):

Oh, my, that’s, that’s a great question. So if it’s in the workplace, you know, let me explain what a mentor is in my mind. So cuz a lot of people charged for mentoring, and I’m not, I don’t agree with that actually. Coach is a coach is someone you pay that holds you accountable, that challenges you and gives you new knowledge and pushes you to the next level, right? A mentor is someone who is maybe at a certain level that you want to be at who’s, you know, similar to you in certain ways that can give you the, the benefit of their experience. You know, for example Maybe you’re, you’re new to sales and you’re, you’re trying it out. You’re feeling it out. But you, you find one of the older members in the company who’s been there for 20 years that’s super successful.

Mike Veny (34:33):

You say, “Hey, can we go to lunch Once in a while?” You’re gonna learn something from that person, just from conversations. So the thing is, I think when it comes to mentors, it’s important to think about what kind of mentor you would want and for what. They’re not there to be a punching bag or just to dump out stuff on. So make sure, you know, you have to learn that boundary and basically say, look, I need some better communication skills. You’ve got some great skills. Would you mind if I ask you a few questions? You’d be surprised. People want to help you.

Natasha Tracy (35:02):

I think we are gonna end it there. But before we do, Mike, tell people where they can find you, what you’re up to right now.

Mike Veny (35:10):

Where you can find me at www.mikeveny.com and I have lots of courses now on Open Sesame. So, if you’re in the workplace and you want to take some training, you can take it from me on workplace mental health and yeah. You know, I I’m also on Natasha’s blog too. I’ve, I’ve done some writing there so you can find me on there. And just, I wanna say thank you to all of you for being here and tuning in for this.

Natasha Tracy (35:39):

Thank you so much, Mike. I’d like to thank you for being here today and for sharing your experience and knowledge with us. You, you certainly were authentic today and we really appreciate that.

Natasha Tracy (35:50):

And thank you, audience, for listening. I am proud to say that this marks episode 10 of “Snap Out of It! And this is actually the final episode for season one. If you’ve missed any episodes, you can find us on major podcast platforms or you can go to snapoutofitpodcast.com for more details. And don’t forget to sign up for the mailing list while you’re there so that you can be the first to sign to first to find out when we do season two. And if you’d like to be a guest on “Snap Out of It! For our next season, just check out our website and fill in the guest application form. Again, that’s at snapoutofitpodcast.com.

Natasha Tracy (36:27):

I’d like to just say thank you to all my guests from this season, my advisory board, and of course my audience for making this such a successful season. My name is Natasha Tracy, I hope you have a great week with great mental health.