I once had a very nice girl tell me that I was hard to get to know. I was surprised at this. I feel like I’m an open and honest person and if you want to know something about me, you can just ask and I’ll generally answer.
I didn’t prod her for more details when she said it, although I probably should have. What I think she might have meant was that I was hard to get to know emotionally. I think what she was saying is that I wasn’t showing my emotions around her and that was the hard part to get to know. This girl, in particular, wore her emotions on her sleeve, so I can understand the disconnect. She was right. My emotions are hidden. But that’s because not even I want to know them and I can tell you right now, no one else really wants to know them either.
I say this from personal experience. I can point to a string of people who “knew” my emotions who left me, primarily, because of them. I’m too much. Too Much. TOO MUCH. And I know it. Just sitting here on a Friday afternoon writing this piece, I have so many emotions flowing through me it would flood and drown the average person. And people want to be involved in that? Without a lifejacket, I wouldn’t recommend it.
Emotional Disconnection and Bipolar Disorder
So I can’t be emotionally connected with people. I just can’t. They leave when I am. Either they find out who I am and don’t like me or they find out what I am and they don’t like that – either way, they’re out the door. And I’m oh-so-tired of people leaving.
But I admit, emotional disconnectedness can be hard on loved ones. If, indeed, a person really did want to get to know me, that crevasse between my emotions and he or she can feel very vast and isolating.
Working So Hard to Control Bipolar, I’m Disconnected from Reality
And another reason that disconnectedness exists is because I’m trying so hard to beat back the bipolar crazy. I know when I’m crazy. I know when my thoughts are crazy. I know when my physical reactions are crazy. And I have to work like a sonofabitch to keep all the bipolar under control. Trying to have a real conversation with me during these times would be like trying to have a deep and meaningful conversation with a hamster on a wheel – I’m just out of breath and focused on the next, painful step.
Deciding When to Be Emotionally Connected
I’d love to say that there are appropriate times to be emotionally connected to others, but in my experience, the safest place to do this is in a psychologist’s office – not in real life. I must be wrong about this. I know other people with bipolar have relationships and friendships and even marriages and these people must have found people with whom they can emotionally connect. Emotional disconnectedness must not be universal.
But it sure feels universal to me. Emotional disconnectedness sure feels like the only option to me. Connecting with others sure feels dangerous and pointless to me. It feels like that connection just puts the other person in a place to rip the still-beating heart from your chest – and they will. They will do it when they tell you that they can’t handle you. They will do it when they say they are afraid of your huge emotions. They will do it when they tell you that they’re too scared you will suicide. They’ll do it when they decide you’re not worth the bother.
I will say that I still wish I could connect with someone. I just fear that will only ever remain a wish.
I am so wowed with this testimonial. I am glad I found this post. I see it is from years ago I am not sure if I will get a feedback. I was having an amazing relationship (1 year and a 7 months) with my bipolar boyfriend. I would say a relationship with lots of ups and downs, where he tried to break up with me 2 times but I insisted so much he kept it and we went on. On those down times I can now see he started feeling depressed, feeling unworthy and incapable of keeping me. Saying things like I deserve someone who is complete. I wonder if that state came after a manic phase where he probably surrendered to his cyber sex act and was full of guilt and same after. Because he also said that he wished a reset. I only found out about his bipolar disorder on july this year, after he broke up with me and meant his decision, saying that he had no more strength to carry the relationship. It was 2 days after I left his house and after spending 20 amazing days. I asked if he didn’t feel anything for me and his answer was that it’s not about whether I feel or not” vague answers that I had to go thru all our conversations to understand what he means. Well, five days later I had this feeling he was cyber sexing with someone, I noticed a strange act when I saw he installed Telegram app on his phone… I did nothing about it, since he had broken up with me. I moved on, but days later I confronted him about getting back together. He sent me a pic of him in a hospital saying that he had a UTI (I just found out that uric acid levels up when in manic phase). I asked if he was having sex with someone else, he said he wasn’t. So, even after he broke up with me, I felt that he knew I cared for him and wanted me to know what was going on. A push and pull situation. Well, after a few days I decided to ask if he was having cyber sex and the answer was “yes, it’s already happened”. That crashed me and it felt like a knife in my heart. I freaked out. Started questioning my worth, questioning why not me? It burned me so much I ended up in the hospital, with a panic attack. I almost died that day. When I got back to myself again, I decided to write about our relationship. And started my research about bipolar disorder since he never mentioned that. And it all made sense. The breakup ended up being a mess that could have been avoided if he had told me before, because I am one of the most patient and understanding kind of person. Even now, as he is totally closed off and decided to push me away. It’s like a different person I know that my love is still there. But getting back to your testimonial, Natasha. That explains his “it’s not about whether I feel or not” . It explains the void. The nothingness that is there to express. I wonder if that love will come back to me again. If the things will go back to the way they were before. Because it feels like I am holding on to the possibility and the uncertainty that is so close to me.
I just cried for over an hour when I realised the last time I connected with someone on emotional level was over 6 years ago. It was with my husband, so that’s already good that I connected with him. But the idea that he is the last person I have truly connected to made me deeply sad. I suffer from bipolar, I was diagnosed 4 years ago, but I knew for longer time that there was something not quite right with me.
I have always had trust issues due to difficult childhood with strict father but in my teenage time and early twenties I had group of friends that I had strong connection with, we could talk for hours and hours about silly or important things.
When I met my husband some of those friendships faded over the years, some remained. I am very lucky because my husband is very supportive ever since I was diagnosed and he really wants me to get better and when I need to cry, he’s there to give me a tissue and a big hug. He wants all the best for me; to meet new friends, to dive into my hobbies. So with the hobbies I began. I have singed in for a photography trimester and I was really excited about that: once a week I had a class with 3 other students, talking 2h about photography with like-minded people seemed like a dream-come-true and it was an enjoyable time. Working on project, sharing the pictures, listening to opinions, collecting advice has really helped me to work better. Yesterday was the last day of the course where our works have been collected into books and handed out to us. We were sitting together with the teacher in Japanese restaurant, eating sushi, drinking wine and talking, talking, talking.
I was very careful about what I say; I didn’t want to share strong opinions, I have praised everyone, because it’s a nice thing to do, I was joining conversations, never leading one because what if I am wrong about something? What if I say something inappropriate? What if I overshare and I will be judged? So I sat there for 5h pretending to be someone I’m not. Same thing I did every week during the course. Same thing I do with every person I met over the last 6 years. Why? I can’t connect with people. My need to control myself is so strong and coming so naturally that I haven’t realised it until today. I don’t want to cry over this anymore because there is no point and already writing this message helped my eyes to dry :) I’d say better late than ever, right?
I’ve been called cold, unnatural, angry, and especially not good enough. I have bipolar and I spend every waking moment trying to control how I interact with other. I’ve learned how to shut down all outward emotion and temporarily blunt strong emotions. I also suffer from an inability to form connection beyond being fond of someone or feel empathy for people experiencing; in my opinion stupid problems. I’ve also learned the only thing I can trust people to do is not be there.
I’m curious if anyone knows of resources for information on this type of presentation in someone suffering bipolar. I have a simmering rage problem to solve
I can relate to not showing my emotions , and showing them too much. Of course in my youth, I ran people off with my intense emotions. I got married to a very emotional man, who is not bipolar. When I ended up on medication, it was easy to block the emotions out of fearthathe would leave me like everyone else, and so for 20 years , my husband has lived with someone who prefers to block emotions than show them. He has chosen to live with this, but it required him going on medication too. It is sad that my husband doesn’t see my emotions, while I show too much to strangers. But the deal is I don’t care about the strangers, or if I ever see them again. I have come close to running my husband off. Obviously we manage, but he has to put up with a very strange person.
I am in a two year plus relationship with my girlfriend who is bipolar II. I am trying to cope with the emotional disconnect she has with me. She is proactive with her bp, but still struggles. She keeps me at a distance and says she doesn’t want to hurt me. I can see her struggle with this knowing she cares but doesn’t want to hurt me. I am trying to be understanding and give her space when needed as well as giving myself needed space. I dont know what to say or do to get through to her to let her know it’s ok to feel, to love, to care , to show something , anything to let me in and try to help her deal with this or at the least be there for her. An underlying issue is she still makes contact with her ex boyfriend and has a more emotional connection with him. We have had discussions about this trying to be understanding and let her have a emotional release/ support but he is and was not healthy for her. At anytime she will just give up if I push the issue or put my foot down. I just want to feel or at least see some kind of reaction from her about us. I see it on the razors edge of her emotions but she will not let it come to fruition.
As someone that suffers that kind of discontent and need for control, I’d offer the advice of finding a new way to connect something that doesnt require a loss of control. by participating in a designated act your partner is actively telling you that they feel these things and you wont missunderstand this effort as anything less then their desire to form a connection.
My partner neither remembers or recognizes it but I frequently kiss her forehead. When I do this small thing I feel safe and in control of my actions, this allows me to feel and express my feeling completely. I dont know if you’ll think it’s enough but as the other person, I think by not throwing around useless amounts of emotion, it allows a different connection to form.
Will Nist – Thank you for your honesty. I am living with a very much loved partner and I knew that he had a personality disorder but after reading this it has become obvious that he has Bipolar disorder. I doubt he will seek help but he might if I can suggest it during an up cycle. He knows something is wrong- he calls it being “derailed”. It happens about once a month and the episodes can last for a couple of days to a week during which time I am eviscerated as he pretty much erases me from his world. We do not live together but have been with each other for three years. It was rather obvious that something was unusual about his behavior, but I am just beginning to discover things like this blog that give me huge revelations. I cannot tell you how helpful this is!!
I need your insight as M has suddenly derailed and I am very worried. He is currently under a great deal of stress: he had a very good job at an upper management level and he very suddenly quit. Now he is panicking and trying to find another position, which involves a series of very stressful, high level interviews and tests (including a psychology test), plus selling his house and relocating to another city. We had plans to go together and have been talking about it for a couple of months. I have rented out my home and have a job offer pending but now that he has derailed he is not talking to me at all. I fear that his interviews may not be going well. I fear that he may be experiencing a deep cycle and that he may move away without me. If this happens (aside from being heart broken) I fear that he will not be able to handle things well without me as I am somewhat of a buffer from his stressful work.
He loves me to the best of his ability when he is in a stable frame of mind. He has a difficult time expressing his emotions even in good times but has been getting better at voicing things as time has passed. For the record I am very patient and I never show my frustration or anger, so he has come to trust me over the past couple years. In the past he was with a woman who did not understand and yelled constantly and he has a pathological fear of being yelled at. After reading your blog I understand why.
Still, M’s mood changes occur very, very rapidly and they often end up blindsiding me: everything will be amazing for weeks and then he derails for no apparent cause. I admit that I struggle to understand this but I am trying very hard. M becomes completely disconnected from me and cuts off all communication. When the low cycle ends it is a gradually return to normalcy. I would appreciate ANY insight that yourself or readers of this letter who are living with Bipolar disorder, especially those who suffer from emotional disconnect, can offer from their own unique experience.
1) Do you have specific triggers?
2) Can you feel yourself starting to “derail”?
3) Are you able to function normally when you are on a down cycle? (I am very concerned as my partner is currently derailed but has three job interviews this week). Are you able to function in high stress situations during your downturns or would it be, well, disastrous?
4) Is there ANYTHING that an outsider (a loved one) can do or say to help you when you are in a down cycle?
5) My partner goes from being an amazing, affectionate man to a completely cold, unapproachable man in an extremely short period of time. He avoids me completely, but if I do happen to cross paths with him he will not look at me. He pretends I am not there. If he accidentally catches my eye his look is cold and full of hate. It frightens me. My question is- does actually feel hatred toward me at these times? Is it more of a complete lack of any emotion? Or could he be hurting inside but unable to express?
6) A reader mentioned that they keep sending normal, every day texts to their partner when she is derailed. Do you think this would be helpful to keep you focused or connected when you are in a down cycle?
7) Do you always experience depression in a down cycle? Do you have depression in an up-cycle too?
8) what other emotions do you feel? Please be blunt. (ie: my partner becomes hyper-sexual and masturbates dozens and dozens of times a day when he is derailed. I am not sure if others experience this or something else?)
9) If you know that someone loves you, does it help in a downturn or is it irrelevant at the time?
Thank you. I really love this person and I can’t imagine life without him but he hides his emotions so well that I cannot tell if he really doesn’t care OR he does care but is very good at hiding things. He recently told me that he thought I was a very strong person (I laughed) but he said that if I knew how weak he was inside he would know how strong I really am. He grew up in a military school, so he would have had to be adept at hiding his thoughts.
For me, there used to be an emotional connection. Then, bipolar “happened” and I bipolar alone. Tonight’s a bad one. I’m a classic example of the bipolar; bankruptcy, poor judgement, well, except, I’m high functioning and I’m a psychology major who completely understands my illness. I’m married to someone who thinks that therapy is abhorrent, the very idea of someone like HIM on medication is repulsive, and I’m pretty sure that he has obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. It’s ugly. I have, over the last four years, gone through an agonizing ordeal of hormone problems, which has caused the kinder, and gentler, me to go into rapid cycle hell. I’m co-morbid, borderline, as well, and medicated and in therapy. However, when I’m in the dumps, as I am now, my companion who likes to be in perfect control, doesn’t emotionally respond, and isn’t empathetic. Lashing out is what I fight from myself. Learned behavior USED to be headbanging, but I’ve conditioned myself out of that one. On nights like tonight though, loneliness is very loud. Bipolar disorder is a monster and so is an emotionally vacant person you depend on for support. I’ve even googled the idea of hospitalizing myself for a few days. Pretty sad
I’m not very emotional, at least with things i SHOULD be emotional about. I have upset many people because i am not reacting like they believe i should be reacting. Funerals and Death are the ones that gets me the most people upset. If i can avoid it i do not go to funerals, not because i didnt like them but because i would be alone in a sea of crying and mourning and my resting face tends to be a bored look. If i am not in a Manic high (for me those are me being excited and annoyingly talkative) or low (lethargic or angry) i tend to be nothing. i have feelings but for the most part they just dont come out. I have been called a sociopath by more then one person some family because of my apparent lack of emotion. I don’t like crying in front of other if it is not a cry from me getting hurt, then ill cry like a baby lol
Just yesterday my dog died and my mom was a giant weeping mess and i was just stoic.
Our dog had been at the vet for week, i never showed emotion while mom and stepdad were home but once they either left to visit him or i got to my room i would start bawling like a baby, but only when i was alone so i KNOW i have emotion it just wont come out. In a lot of cases it can be a trigger for an angry low.. I would get mad every time mom would try and talk to me about our dog and how he wasnt getting better. i knew he wasnt but she wouldnt let that go and i would get angry and snap at her and then i would have to remove myself to my room before i said something that i couldn’t take back.
I had started to believe i must be close to being a sociopath because of my lack of emotions and how i was one of very few that wouldnt react right, i never once thought it could be linked to my bipolar. In a way this post helped me think a bit better to myself, that im not a sociopath.
Natasha, Are you BP I or II? I can relate to fearing friendships because people get sick of you, but I’ve always had more confidence finding love. I don’t know why. I’ve been married for a long time, 22 years. I hope you find someone, you deserve it.
My fiftieth birthday is next Saturday (12/12/!5). Regardless of the relentless pursuit of True-Death toward me on this blog I refuse to maintain I am not human. I am and my goal In this life isn’t to pile money, appear all knowing and especially upon the feet of the ill.
This is my problem and I would appreciate any help from anyone who has at least followed any of my comments and has any respect at all for me as a person as well as the way I am. Also, who knows the status quo is of zero importance to me as well as any other empty religious or other morality. I don’t want to spend my 50 th birthday alone, yet I don’t have much money. My ex-girl (who is a great girl and person yet obviously has no romantic love for me-a hug must be coerced-and I will never do that again). No matter those are her feelings and she has every right to them and I always love her anyway.
I’m looking to try to spend Saturday with Vodka, drugs, music and a woman. The woman most likely not for sex ( no-shit-it’s been ten years and I just need one to talk to smell to hold to cry to and so on). I’m so fking lonely. Just the voice of a woman relaxes me. I’m 6’4″ 295 lbs. and am tired of hearing my own deep voice and those of other mens.
Anybody know a good woman for one night. WN
Hi will nist
I am not someone who has bipolar but just reading what you post makes my heart sad. I hope you know your not alone in this world. I struggle with my fiancée going through her ups and downs. Right now we are on a low. Telling me she wasn’t ready ( but already asking me , having the ring and living together ) she has left me up rooted her life and threw out whatever we had together. So being lonely I can relate but know you can express yourself and others will reach out and support you. I love this sight because there are many people that will be here for you. I just wanted to post and say you won’t be alone and I hope you find peace. Keep posting.
My hearts so torn I’m dealing the love of my life breaking all our life planns (marriage, pregnancy and life). She keeps trying to tell me she doesn’t know what’s wrong but she’s not “in love” but a week ago she was and we were fine. She just did this all in a 30 minute sitting and gave up and wouldn’t tell me why. I keep telling her I’m not going anywhere and I’m waiting for her. I keep texting and talking to her on a daily bases to know she’s not there alone tho we are apart. Every time we are together she just crys and says she doesn’t know what’s wrong. I asked her to go back to her old meds but it’s her choice. It’s like the blog above says why would anyone want me why if I show who I am they will stay. Everyone just leaves. But I’m not leaving her but it feels she’s pushing me. My family asks when will you have enough. I said I will never be done. I said I do and no matter what I’m in love I’m there for her and I won’t leave her. But I don’t know if she believes me. I tell her every single time I’m here I’m not going anywhere I’m waiting for you to come out of this spiral and I support you in what you feel you have to do. All my friends say I deserve better ( she does too) but they aren’t In my spot they don’t understand. You don’t give up on the one that you are in love with just because they have a disorder. And it upsets me because I feel she thinks I will walk away or is trying to walk away. I just think every day she will come back. She asked me to marry her. She wanted to start our family and we were. Then In a matter of days she flipped and broke it off. No fights no nothing. I still have hope. Any advice thoughts would be great.
Ps. What do I say or do. I feel she has her eyes closed. Is there anything I can do or say to snap her back?
Curious:
You post was published November of 2015 and it is now September 2016 so I am very curious to know what happened between you and your partner. I am in a very similar situation right now. About 2 months ago the love of my life made a series of irrational decisions that led to him quitting his job. Since then, he is under a lot of pressure to secure employment. He has just “derailed” with no warning- Saturday he was fine and Sunday he completely cut off all communication. We had no arguments or even a small disagreement, it was seemingly out of the blue. This has happened before, and we have weathered it through. However, this time we are right in the middle of moving to a different city. I have rented out my condo and have requested and received a pending transfer to another city so that I can be with him. He just left for a series of job interviews and derailed the day before he left. I greatly fear that I will not be able to see him back into an up cycle before he sells his home and moves away. Were you able to work things out with your lady? You said that you would always be there for her but were you able to follow through? I say the same thing and I mean it, too but… I also imagine years ahead and wonder if I would be able to handle the constant threat of having my partner derail. I have lost all but one of my friends over the stress that I am going through riding out the down cycles. Everyone wants me to dump him or “give him a taste of his own medicine” by ignoring him for days at a time but they just don’t understand how harmful that would be. My partner is rapid cycling so these events happen every four to 6 weeks, sometimes more frequently. He is not diagnosed so he is not on medication, but he knows something is wrong. He is south east Asian so in his country mental illnesses are not diagnosed and no help is available. There is also a huge stigma towards it so I don’t think he would seek help here. He has told me he uses me as a counselor and that he needs me. How do I walk away? I can’t!
I pray that you were able to negotiate your relationship with your partner and that things worked out positively. If they did not I hope you know that you did everything possible to do and I hope your friend is okay.
Thank you for explaining. I am in a relationship with someone who is bipolar and this provides insight that helps me understand.
I don’t think I know ( seriously) after reading some of the comments now SOME
Regarding families now mind you,every family is different culturally financially etc.
Plus,I see quite a few married,of course many could be living with partner…
But,I hear the hollowness & disconnect from many posted here,plus the meanings of love etc go round.
What I don’t …is family that ..aren’t ..there any more don’t tolerate YOUR BAD BEHAVIOUR like BEHAVIOUR…
Isn’t BP ….only are NICE to you ON your STABLE days REST of time FORGET IT.
HAS OPENLY SAID LAST YR SHE HAS DIRECTLY PLACED MUCH OF HER STRESS ON ME.
KINDA LATE FOR THAT…..goes away ALL SUMMER TO GET AWAY FROM THE BP BEAST..( me)
Same old.
Was supposed to help me,with my finances,( it’s complex,private) she works in a financial institute)
B/ c she went away all summer I’m still here in this apt with 3 flights stairs another yr now …..I was dying to get another place…..
But without her & the finances stuff no point going forward looking)
Now when fall comes,back to work full time for her,…………….I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Yup,fall…my very worst time of year ever……
Ugh.
Please,I don’t need some smart ass commenter saying why can’t you do it yourself?
I would!
But as I’ve stated its a complicated financial situation that’s nobody’s damn business.
I already feel shitty enough without ADVICE of any sort.
I’m only writing for my own clarity sanity ……
Because yes I’m falling apart……..
I can’t do it anymore.
If it weren’t for this website……………X
This is exactly where I fall as well.
I also thought myself as an open book,always.
But,really I’m afraid of being burned,I do wear the mask…
Out & about,trying to hide my disease,which,btw that,& my other illness,is even more exhausting.
No,Natasha,you are not alone in this disconnect feeling,actually I’ve had them even from my own family…..
Which I think is very sad,is come to the point where we ( but for my brother living 3 hours away,so never see him)
Meaning,once again,my sister,our relationship has crumbled to rubbish.
I’m certain,yes she’s scared of the power the BP has & the real statistics that I’m living on edge of suicide,as more
Of us rapid cyclers I think,seem to be.
I think,due to treatment resistance,even rougher going,than other forms of BP.
I had my huge sobbing fit,not that it does any good,as I’ve posted previous,crying is useless.
Only gives me a migraine,ouch,more pain.
My sadness is so deep it hurts my body…you know the kind I mean,where it almost feel like flu?
But it’s grieving/ for another loss.
For someone who is not deceased but sees me as being.
I truly believe rapid cyclers have it WORST, MIX IT UP WITH A HOST OF MEDICAL PROBS ( SEVERE)
I try try & think maybe it’ll get better.
IM LIVING A LIE.
Having the psychiatrist diagnose me with bipolar II at age 44 made my life make sense. The inability to connect at deeper than a surface level was nearly impossible. When I did it was a disaster. The intensity of emotion was intolerable and derailed me. Before I was diagnosed I lived by these rules… Never look back and everybody leaves. The rules are the same but at least now I know why.
That last paragraph said it all for me. I am terrified of letting out the ‘bipolar beast.’ I’ve had people to leave me. I was engaged when I felt my fiancé realized having to deal with me on a part-time basis was very different than having to walk in on me having a mania time or depressed and worried if I’m going to ‘off’ myself. I’ve had friends tell me that I was too much and too clingy. I had no boundaries. Now, that’s all I have. So, I’m with you Natasha. Emotional connectedness is all a dream for me.
Emotional disconnectedness is a coping mechanism I use for most situations. When the coping mechanism is turned off, those chosen few rarely understand my intentions. Thus I like being on the outside of the fish bowl. Tis a sad state to be in. Ocassionally I meet someone I can connect with. But the encounters are rare, short lived and cherished.
Yet again, thank you so much Natasha for exposing your personal thoughts and feelings for the benefit of others. I’m constantly amazed by how brave, open and honest you are.
This article has helped me to look at the behaviour of my bipolar ex-partner in a completely different light. I always found it hard how she would find it hard to remember that I was a positive part of her life but through your writings in beginning to understand that it wasn’t always a conscious choice for her: The medication, depression, power of the emotions and sheer exhaustion made it all to easy for her to avoid confronting her emotions and the outcome of her actions.
But I know that she was in a lot of turmoil about how her emotions made her feel, behave and the resulting impact on me.
As with a lot of people with conditions related to depression, eventually it was easier for her to simply disconnect entirely. I’ll never forget about 2 weeks after we broke up her screaming that she had been happy in that last fortnight without me in her life. I know that I’m not a bad person and realise now that the reason she had been happy was that she had been able to avoid facing our relationship issues (mainly caused by her lack of activity, moods and inability to communicate). I guess its basically a classic example of shooting the messenger.
So while this article focuses on the viewpoint of the person with bipolar, it would be interesting to know how the non-bipolar sort people feel and Ashley whether or not the person with bipolar is aware of / acknowledges this other viewpoint?
my wife of 8 years is feeling exactly this way. She loves me but feels disconnected. she wants to find her happiness, but at the potential end of our marriage. i want to fix everything, but dont know where to begin…..
hi bill don’t know how are things, it seems some months old, yet, don’t try to fix anything, fix yourself, take care of yourself, let her know you’re here for her in case, disconnect emotionally, protect yourself, grow, be there for her, don’t give her advice or solutions, otherwise you’re doomed, been there , deep down…if only i knew
take care bro
I was absolutely horrible to my husband for 28 years. I must have left him at least a million times. He just called me his “crazy beyotch” and now that I’ve been actually diagnosed with bipolar and he has a real answer to why I did what I did, he threatens me with divorce now. I wouldn’t only stop crazy but I’d keep the professional diagnose a secret too.
I just want to add, although I fear rejection, disappointment is by far the most dangerous emotion.
I feel guilty, because I myself am often the one pushing others away. I am fortunate to have friends and family who have come to show that they love me unconditionally despite my many years of irrational moodiness and wishy-washy behavior. I am still not diagnosed, but I believe that if/when I am, they would try to be as helpful and understanding as possible.
I am the one who pushes them away because I don’t like the feeling of failure as a friend/sister/daughter/aunt or whatever other role I’m supposed to play at any given time. I’m trying so hard to keep my own s*** together that I can’t really handle being part of anyone else’s. On those days where I’m feeling strong and like I can finally conquer all this, I’m prone to making plans and more plans that I’m only going to flake out on when I sink back down into depression. Better to avoid including others in my mess.
I wish there was some easy answer. I’m so thankful for your writings, Natasha, and for the people brave enough to comment on them and tell their stories. It has helped me understand myself far better, and it’s showing me that I can’t do this alone as I’ve done everything up until now. Thank you.
Natasha,
I’m OCD. I have subjects I can get absolutely hyper on. If I find a fellow geek who loves science fiction/fantasy/horror shows, we can get into a geek-zone where we are practically running over each other with funny movie quotes and professions of love for various excellent shows/movies. [If you know this quote, I could probably spend an hour talking to you about the movie it’s from, lol: “Good, bad… I’m the one with the gun.” Or “Hail to the king, baby.” Or shows like Breaking Bad or Walking Dead… geek-drool!]
So I get being “too much”. But I actually enjoy it when I can find someone else who will go into uber-geek mode with me. :)
I have a friend who is functionally autistic. He can go off on a subject to the point where I need a breather! I’m still his friend. But I get the whole “being overwhelmed” sometimes. I’d often need to take him “in small doses”, lol. But he’s still my friend. My very good friend.
I guess this is more subject/passion overwhem-ment, so to speak, and not emotional. But I’ve done that to my Mom, when I locked onto something that was upsetting me and pretty much took it to it’s over-the-top worst-case-scenario. Something that had moral implications that I found upsetting because I was sure it made me a horrible person, but I didn’t know how to stop. Long story. And several years ago, before my Mom had a stroke and I couldn’t really dump my concerns/worries on her anymore.
Anyway, if you ever do need to let your emotions out to play, I’m used to being on the giving and the receiving end of someone who has “run away with the ball”, lol. I keep reading your writing and feel connected. Yeah, I’m probably entering the scary “stalker fan” area, lol. :) If you ever want to talk to a stalker fan, I’d love to unload on you and be unloaded upon.
FYI, I haven’t written anything on my blog that I posted the URL to in years. My Mom died 11/2011, and it took the wind out of my sails. It was both a relief and a horror. She was no longer suffering, but I no longer had her there. But the last few years I had her… it was horrific. The situation of trying to be her caregiver, and Dad’s caregiver, and taking care of my mildly autistic son, and also trying to get suffcient work hours, and going into more debt because I was losing so many work hours… I became a very mean person to my Mom from my frustration… or at least a very impatient person. I had nothing left to give emotionally to her as I was so drained just trying to keep her alive, keep her medications to the most recently changing specifications, and getting her to doctor appointments, and… with everything else, it was too much.
Making a long story short, I haven’t blogged in a long while. Pretty much because all I ever seemed to blog about was complaining about the situation. [See above paragraph, lol.]
Anyway, if you ever want to chat… even just by email… that would be cool. If I’ve just freaked you out by coming on too strong, no worries… feel free to ignore. :)
yer letter made me smile and almost cry. you remind me of an old bp friend and me combined. i bet yer a lot of fun to be with! i bet natasha is too, in fact i would love to meet almost everyone that posts on here! sure would be fun to have a bp convention in seattle wa at the convention center and have dinner on the top of the space needle! and they have the funnest rides!
Wow, thanks, Denise!
Can OCD people go to BP conventions? :)
I’m in California, so Seattle might be doable. Although I don’t know when I’d have the time to go there.
I bet you’re alot of fun to be with, too, Denise. :) Ditto Natasha and all the commenters. :)
If I made the rules, anyone with a MI or loves some one with a MI could go! We need to stick together! Acceptance. that is my mantra. ;)
My hubby’s family are all from CA. Love to soak up that “Delicious Davis” sunshine, maybe I should drive down that a way!
I’ve had a few co-workers, over the years, become – what I thought to be – good friends.
I mean you sit with them at lunch, hear of their spouse’s antics, hear of their children, hear of their own frustrations – exasperations – and even depressions. So, eventually, you feel connected in some way or manner… that is, until you “mess up” and the BIPOLAR shows through.. front and center, perhaps…
then suddenly… no one talks to you, no one sits with you at lunch, they’ve made a different lunch schedule – suddenly have errands every day to do
you ask of their children… you get vague answers
you ask of their spouse’s latest gaffaw… they tell you it’s nothing
or, they simply… disappear
after a while… you just STOP being “outwardly social and friendly”. The pain of establishing a connection, to then lose it… just too much
then you are labeled as “non-communicative” or “not very friendly” or “your demeanor does not bode well for any friendship” (I had a co-worker tell me this) and well… you are very much LEFT OUT
it is a lonely and painful existence… to hide what lurks inside and to seemingly feel that you must protect others from yourself… so as to not lose any further “connections”
course then you are left, day after day, with yourself and well… the Bipolar that aims to destroy you
Tabby,
You are very articulate! Very well said! It brought me back to a very painful time when I was still working. Scary times.
D
Tabby, I don’t know what else to say except… {{{{HUGS}}}}
I’m sorry others decided you were, I don’t know, too much work to be friends with. I’d have to say it was THEIR LOSS.
Such good pts. Tabby. Even when someone can negotiate the label they can’t handle the reality. Not fitting in and connecting is a terrible thing. W.N.
Again the paradox. The harder I try the worse ” It ” gets. The more I care the worse I get. The more I feel the greater the price.
Am I to forever mourn for the love I wish I had shared as well as the emotions and secrets I did?
I have wondered that myself about “the harder I try the worse I get”. I wonder if it is like spring, we look forward to it coming because we have hope that when the flowers come out, we will feel just a little better, but then we are sadly disappointed that we don’t. Hope is like one of those little tiny flash lights you tease your cat with. They chase it, grab it, then it is gone again.
Often I’ve said to my therapist that I feel like I am taking three steps back and only one forward. But she reminds me of the areas in which I am indeed doing better. It is ever so slow, but it is more like two steps forward and one back! Always a little ahead but it is hard to see when in the pit that is so dark. A person coming in with a little flashlight helps, or does it hurt. it is a distraction that keeps us going, but it feels fruitless after awhile. Just keep chasing that flashlight ~~ they are fun at least!
Denise,
I’m finding that the pit/hole/depression gets worse when I’m in a rut. And that the more I change my routine, especially if I somehow include more time with people or more time outside, the better I feel. Although when you are deep enough in the pit/hole/depression/rut, it’s hard to change anything. :P
Of course, it’s hard to hang with people if you have to hide yourself from them to protect them. I… yeah, been there, done that.
I think I need to go find a group of fellow “crazy people” in my area that I can hang with. Not just fellow computer geeks. (There’s some crazy among them, lol, but it’s not always “crazy enough” to understand me and my level of crazy, lol.)
The invasion starts.
… yeah, I’m just not sure where we are invading, lol!
The more you want to love and be loved, the more separation you create from having it. And the more disappointment you’ll have when you perceive you have lost that love.
That’s how the mind works, because the mind is logical, and love is something abstract, it’s a feeling. You can’t measure love, or hold it your hand and put it in your pocket but we know it’s real because we can feel that it’s real. It’s one of the greatest mysteries.. what exactly is love? ;)
But because the mind is logical, it likes to label everything – it can’t understand what love is because it’s not love is not logical, it’s an emotion, something irrational, it’s a feeling that comes through you and makes life wonderful for a moment. And everyone’s perception of love is different. But if you try get hold of it, or posses it – you destroy it. Because love is not something to attain or to have, it’s something we all already have. A love that is not outside of ourselves, but within ourselves. The rest of the time, the mind will reject that idea, block it out, believe who you are is somewhere in the outside world, or in what society thinks of you, or your goals and achievements. But that is all just an endless pursuit to find yourself, and it’s just a matter of remembering who you are, that the mind will hold onto the idea that you need or want something, until you realize you are what you are seeking.
awesomely said! reeeely liked it! all of it!
Like you said there “Just keep chasing that flashlight ” … until you realize you are the light :)
But what I realized being bipolar, it’s like you’re starting to understanding yourself, and you’re wanting to change or figure out what really is important in life. We get depressed about normal life, or daily routines, because they’re not actually important ( only at a survival level) what is important though, the most important thing, is to know yourself and to be happy without needing or wanting anything, just being yourself, nothing to find or chase, you are it!
Pierre, you are sooo right on!
I felt so stuck! It is that stuck feeling, that feeling that nothing really matters except what is in the heart and if no one sees my heart, what good is it! So how to we find “my heart”? I have been planning a camping trip and it dawned on me that in order to find my life’s purpose (my heart), i have to treat it like a camping trip. I have to think of where I want to go, what I want to see, what i need to bring, and what might i do when a road block comes along, etc. If I put as much planning into my desire to live as I do a camping trip, I might have my answers! We have to do this with love too! We have to plan it in our head first. Where can I meet someone? What will I be looking for? What do I want to see, how do I want to look? what gifts can I bring to the relationship? etc. this is of course very simplified, but we have to have a road map! There are steps we have to take if we want to get something special, it take hard work and diligence. We have to have that flashlight to help us see and not give up, even if the batteries run out. We have to know the sun will shine the next day! Hunker down and stay warm till you can see again!
When I feel like this, i worry i am manic. feeling pretty ok today and it sort of scares me but it gives me that fully charged battery I need to get me though those dark tunnels in life. Keep looking for that pin light!
Well said! We need a plan to achieve what we truly want in life. When depressed, it’s easier to slip into the negative and worry about the future and regret about the past, but if you can hold onto one thing you desire and work towards it one step at a time, that can be your guiding light out of negative thinking. But it’s important to realize life is ‘a happening’, you can’t control it – life happens to you. Like a river, you can’t keep treading water or swimming against the current, you need to let go and flow with the river. Take each day as it comes, and adjust the plan as you go along. Others will be there along the way to help you and teach you (good and bad things) but ultimately there has to be a point where you say to yourself I’m going to help myself, and I’m not going to live in depression anymore, I’m going to make changes, even though it’s hard, as long as I do one thing, even a small thing every day that is good for my well being, then you’ll know you’re on the right path, you’re taking responsibility for your own happiness. There will be bumps, and forks in the road but you just have to follow your intuition, listen to your heart more, don’t live in the past, learn from the past, to live in the future, live in the present.
Also like you said sometimes when you feel excited about life, or feel energized – it can be confusing whether it’s mania coming on, or you’re actually just being happy for once. But unfortunately sometimes it can escalate into mania and the enviable crash into another hard depression. The best way to tell what is happening, is to monitor your thoughts… are your thoughts racing, are eating less, sleep less, and if you are… just go for a walk by yourself, or sit own outside and sit in a chair and try not think too much, stop focusing on every thought that pops into your mind, just focus on the feeling of well being you’re having, and bring self more into the present. And this way you can keep yourself from that extreme high, and also keep that depression at bay. Life is not something to plan, it’s something to live in present. So try keep your thoughts there in the present – just sit in there in quiet appreciation, and say to yourself, “hey I’ alive right now, and I’m happy.. and I do have control over my mind, I can do this!”
thanks P! Must bring self into the present. Sound like my therapist, thank for reminding me of what she has taught me. My thoughts race all over and i have flashbacks in this time so i look around and try to see what I see. a dog toy, what color is it? what does it feel like, the picture on the wall, what do I see, etc. . . Stay present! Thanks again!
D
Pierre,
Your comments here have been so helpful for me today! Especially what you said about taking whatever happy moments we may experience and stopping our thoughts in order to gain control over them as a way of enjoying happiness without it leading to mania. I have not been diagnosed bipolar, but I believe that I might be. I work so hard to keep myself even, and I have become terrified of happiness and (as you mentioned) the inevitable downward spiral it to which it leads. Your advice is beautiful and practical. Thank you so much!
Your welcome. I’ve been there many times, even recently where I’ve come out of a down period and into a happier state for no reason and wonder if I’m just being happy or is it mania coming on. It’s a terrible thing with being bipolar because even when you’re happy there’s always that nagging thought or fear of another manic episode and another big crash. It’s like a shadow that follows you, always nipping at your heals. The best medicine is to just watch those thoughts, a quieter mind is a healthier mind.
Disagree. Love is as rational as all else is. Just as much as anything. Reason just hasn’t found out yet. This is why some rational people still believe in fantasy religions. Also how many scam artists use the need for as well as the need for all else to take advantage of others. ‘any significantly advanced technology is indisinguishable from magic’ religion etc. in my opining. Important and wonderful to be happy and content for most but not magic. Love like any joy is to savor. Reason is to get us there. Reason is a tool and the truth. Or is It all an illusion?
Logic and reason will define your world, but it won’t give it substance, meaning or purpose. Although we are logical beings, we are also emotional beings, so it’s all about balance.
But when Reason comes up with the formula for love, let us know ;)
it IS all about balance. but tell me, WTF is that! Balance? HA! I wish I knew. Nothing in my world is logical or balanced, or maybe it is and I don’t know it. Do I have to be logical to see it? My logic could be and usually is really different then other’s too. I know lots of folk look at me like, man she’s nuts! I think I am being logical, but can tell by the looks on their faces that others don’t. If I am emotional, they look at me and wonder, what the heck is wrong with her! I have this skin on my bones but I sure am not comfortable in it! Is that logical or emotional? I don’t expect answers, but seriously, how do we do this!? How do we keep going and pretend that everything is “normal”? I don’t give a flyin’ F**k if it is logical OR emotional, it is what it is!
Making it through some of these days is so fr**kin scary! Hold up in my home till it passes, IF it passes! WILL it pass? If I go out in public, will anyone notice how nuts I feel/AM? Will I act out on my Nuts? Will I do something dangerous? Is that emotional or rational?
Loving an imaginary deity in the sky or loving my dead husband, what is crazier? Both are gone! Ya can’t touch or feel either of them! You can talk till yer blue in the face, but they won’t give you the time of day!
Sorry I am more nuts today then normal; I will be ashamed tomorrow. thanks for your time.
just really terrified of the judgement of people seeing the real me so i stay hold up in the house hoping for an easy way to die. Praying to someone that seems to think it’s not my time yet.
I can understand where you coming from, and from experience I know how hard it is to have a sense of balance being bipolar. It’s like walking across a frozen lake and waiting for the ice to crack at any second ;) But when I say balance it’s between your thoughts and your emotions. We have to be more weary of not letting our thoughts run away with us, or not letting our emotions run away with us, we have to keep somewhere in the middle (easier said than done though!)
If you can be aware of thoughts, and have thoughts that are unwanted – then it follows that there is an observer of the thoughts, and then the thoughts themselves that the observer does not want – the observer and the thoughts are two separate things. As the observer of the thoughts, you are the one who gives each thought power by focusing on it. And as you focus on a type of thought, a similar type of thought may appear into a chain, which can become very visual as more thoughts come into the chain. It could also become very real, or feel real to you emotionally… Like worrying about something you might do in a public or what others think about you etc. Now all of this is just imagination, but by focusing on these thoughts we can make them very real, or even actually happen in reality.
So the next time you’re in the bath, or sitting outside (somewhere quiet where you are alone), sit there and wait for a thought to pop up, and picture in your mind that each thought is like a cloud in the sky. And instead of focusing on it, let it drift off into the distance so that it fades away to nothing. See it for what it is, it’s just a thought, just imagination. You are just the observer and the thoughts are something separate. The thoughts aren’t who you are, you are the one who decides which thoughts have preference.
If you’re worried what others think about you, you are letting their thoughts (or imagined thoughts) come into your mind and effect your thoughts about yourself. So as the observer of your own thoughts, see how false that way of thinking is, and see that you are the one who decides which thoughts you want to make real in your life and which are just “garbage”.
The less you identify with every thought and make it personal, the more free you will be from them. So just take it one thought at a time, and see those thoughts for what they really are, and take it from there!
Peirre, WHO ARE YOU!? Are you a therapist? Sure wish I could copy and past what you said. it will require me to read it many time to get it in this busy brain!
Your cloud analogy is what we used to try, but i used a train going by instead. It is loud, hard, scary, and when it goes by it is so powerful that it nearly blows the hair off your head~~~but let it pass (Pima Chodren I think). her talk is to be still. and accept it, not to judge it. but i think i like the cloud analogy much better, it is a gentler way of thinking and safer too. . . for me anyway. The train makes me want to go to the tracks. Maybe the cloud will be more effective.
And yes, all this is easier said then done, we sure do appreciate input though. Sounds like you practice meditation. Do you? We’ve tried but not successful. gonna try again. Yoga is a new thing being tried now.
Because I have done things in public that I was unaware of, i am scared. I used to think people were playing tricks on me, but found out that I really was doing and saying things that I was not aware of. I found myself in places that I had no idea how I got there, spent money on things and found them in the closet not knowing where they came from, and found myself in some pretty scary places with people I didn’t know. So my fear is real about doing things out in public. A work in progress in therapy.
I have to remind myself that it is my thoughts that saved my life and it is my thoughts are what will get me through this as well ~~ or not. It IS a choice, i have to try hard to remember that! The disease is not a choice, but I am not the disease. off subject again, sorry.
I often hear people say they are bipolar. I find that confusing. My husband had cancer and diabetes, but he would never and I would never say, “I am cancer” Or “I am diabetes”. Yes, the disease take over my life and can kill me much like cancer, but it is not WHO I am, it is what I HAVE. It is not just semantics, it is very important that I make this distinction. If I make it who I am, then I am powerless to do anything about it. I am not the color of my skin, my eyes, my weight etc., yes, they make me who I am but i am not just one thing. I am many.
I sure am glad there are people to remind me of my own power when I often feel so helpless and powerless. What Dee said is so true, I get glimpses of it on occasion. “when we give up control, that is when we actually gain control of our happiness.”
I am so glad I found this site, thank you Natacha. There are so many great people here!
Thanks!
Oh Ya, I liked what you said, “take one thought at a time” Kinda like “take one day at a time” for the AA groups. I think I will put that on a bumper sticker! ;)
I don’t know if this will be helpful at all, but a good friend recently told me that what she does when her thoughts are overwhelming is to see her mind as a white wall or room. Any thoughts that come in, she simply paints over them with white paint. She is the one holding the paintbrush. She is the one who gets to examine her thoughts and decide which ones to keep and which ones to paint over.
We were talking about dealing with racing thoughts when trying to sleep, but I find myself trying to do it in daily life as well. It helps me. My room is green though. :)
that’s great trisha! i liked how you said your room was green though. ha! made me giggle~ i will experiment with that too! thanks!
I don’t know how others feel when “racing” but mine is often mental and physical combined. i am just starting to get in touch with it all. i can feel myself leading up to it for days. Sleep goes from 12 hours to 10, 8, 6, 4 then to 2 and to nothing, then my thoughts are so fast that i can’t keep up with any of them, and physically, i shake internally, like i’m full of caffeine, as though it is in my cells, but i can’t seem to get up and more; it is like I am paralyzed; the anxiety pours out of me to the point that it is painful.
IF I can get up and take a walk it sometimes goes away, but often takes a few miles before that happens, and then the next day we start all over again but because of the long walk the day before I move at a snails pace, but the anxiety is fierce. like Parana chewing on my skin. I wish I even knew what i was thinking during those times too, but i can’t! they are nothing and everything.
today I did the walk and a neighbor saw us and stopped to talk. I was in my panic mode and could hardly talk. but I focused on her beautiful eyes and mannerisms and her children and suddenly felt calm. is this “normal” for people who have bipolar? it is so exhausting!
I am should be really tired, but feel revved up, and can’t move, want to go to bed, but don’t want to go to bed. is all this “normal” behavior?
I am 54 and it is worse now then ever! I keep thinking it is hormones, that ‘s what they said when I was a kid! It is truly exhausting. i really thought life would get easier at this age. herumph
I understand the feeling of being paralyzed. I’m glad you’ve found that walking helps. I hope you find other methods as well. It’s easier for me if I can catch myself in the process of heading in the direction of anxious thoughts and do what I can to cut them off. It really takes work though. It’s exhausting to continually be gatekeeper at the door of your mind. But it’s necessary.
And when I am in that paralyzed, shaking, feeling of dread kind of place, I’m trying to MAKE myself get up and do SOMETHING. Like you said, go for a walk, or make a cup of tea, or whatever.
Best wishes. :)
exactly! :)
No I’m not a therapist.. just another bipolar crazy person :) I like using the cloud analogy because just like the weather, our thoughts can effect our mood. So some days we wake up, and there is a dark storm in our mind, it makes us feel down.. like there are a lot of dark thoughts blocking the “sun” of our happiness. Sometimes it’s like being in a tornado you’re being swept away, and wake up later somewhere else not remembering what happened. Our thoughts are like the filter through which we see our world. So it’s important to see that as observers of our own thoughts, we can monitor and choose which thoughts we focus on and give focus on, which in turn affect our mood / well being.
I do practice meditation and I found it has really helps in controlling racing thoughts. I’ve also spent a lot of time figuring out what my triggers are, some were diet related, some were people and events related, and some where money related. So being aware of and eliminating any triggers has helped manage the episodes.
100% agree with you that we are not the disease – it just happens to us. But unlike cancer for example, it’s a disease in the mind so it’s harder to dissociate from it from being who you are since it shapes our reality and actions. It took my a long time to actually accept that I’m not mentally well, because was a gradual thing but once I started doing things that shocked me or I didn’t remember doing, or put me at serious harm – then I started to see something was not right with my thoughts. Denial is one of the symptoms, so if we’re here and able to talk about our problems, then I guess we’re on the right track to recovery. It’s good to hear others perspectives.
Pierre, i appreciate your calming thoughts and perspectives, and how you can put them into words that can lead to actions. thank you. i was able to copy and paste what you said so I can go back to it next time I am racing. will have to high light certain things cause i often cannot read when racing.
i have taken three walks today just to get calm, it is dark now so i will have to do what you said and trisha said and try to focus rather then move (dangerous city too walk here after dark).
Reason created science and now most reasonable people don’t believe that MI people are inhabited by some kind of devil. It also tell us we evolved from the same ancestors as other types of primates. It tells us the gods are almost for sure a type of hallucination. As to love dopamine and oxytocin are for sure a part of the picture. Thinking love is some magical thing is along the lines of thinking all pots of gold are at the end of a rainbow. We are mechanical electro-chemical organisms. Nothing more and nothing less. Just because the science can’t fully understand it at present doesn’t make it supernatural. In fact I almost guarantee it will be found far before the end of the current century. For the most part it’s a combination of physical attraction, money (or simply what it stands for / what someone can do for you, sexual binding etc. Just as most rational people don’t believe in god’s or fairy’s they don’t assign emotion to the stars either. W.N.
Oh WILL! I am heart broken! You don’t believe in faeries!? That’s like not believing in Santa Clause! Blaspheme! ;)
yup we are nothing more than walking meat suits, slightly smarter than chimps but animals nevertheless, our only purpose is a selfish quest to survive and spread our genes, love is a myth, the universe came from nothing and nothing happens after you die… we’re merely pointless beings in a universe which shouldn’t have existed in the first place, just a random fluke, cosmic gag reel if you will ;)
Agree for the most part except that reason can be fun in itself. W,N.
To Pierre. Not what I said. Also just because chimp brains are eaten by some human’s think we should think more of chimps and less of humans. Think much much more to people and all others animals, plants etc., but magic and positive thinking doesn’t make it so.
We are walking meat suits. Nothing wrong with that. Soon we will most likely be meat suits with our own man made electrical, mechanical, chemical and otherwise enhancements. I think you can bet on that due to Moore’s Law proving itself more and more every day.
Believe love is as real as pain, just not supernatural. Maybe any and all types of gods but that concept is almost exclusively used as a means to escape reality and sum up what is une xpainable. Also makes a wonderful reason to dress up and pretend you know something you don’t. I think you know how ridiculous the pope and other fools like that look like to rational people when they dress up like clowns and play their games.
I don’t know shit but neither do you or anyone else. I don’t know shit but I do know I don’t know shit. I think maybe that’s the difference between me and you. Maybe not. Maybe you know the answers but the best way to turn off reasonable people is to claim you do. It’s actually the first lesson in con-artist 102 right after 101 (get the gullible morons first) W.N.
@Will
I’m not trying to con anyone. But I will say that what I posted is useful to people because it makes a difference and some people can relate to it, because it’s a common thread among people who suffer from depression.
And if you think about it logically… what I’m saying is we are not thoughts, because thoughts are just as illusory as “magic”… thoughts are only real to the individual person. And like I always remind myself “Life is but a dream, and we’re just the imagination of ourselves”. Do we ever really know who we are, if we just experience our world through a vale of thoughts, logic and reason. We don’t exist outside of ourselves, we only exist here in the present moment – a place of no thoughts, just seeing what is (awareness). Just like in a state of love.. it’s a surrender to that need to control and hold onto ideas of who we think we are and how the world works, it’s an allowing be in that state of contentment, a deeper knowing from within yourself and realizing that we aren’t thoughts, we are something more real, something that feels more real, that makes us feel alive, which is… love – that which can’t be fully grasped by the mind, but only known with an open heart.
The mind will always reject that idea and build a defense against it because is it afraid of losing control, it doesn’t want you to realize you’re not who you think you are, it wants to believe you exist in memories and imagination, and it’s too stubborn to see that the answer is really that simple, that love is the only thing that is real.. everything else is just thoughts, imagination, illusion. Our outer experience is merely a reflection of ourselves, to ultimately find ourselves, because who we are is not “out there”, it’s within ourselves, that’s where all the answers are.
Pierre, i really enjoy what you write, it make me try to think differently then i normally do. you are forcing me to use my brain in a different way. my instructor is doing the same.
I probably won’t explain this very well, but recently i started taking yoga and the instructor was explaining about how the reptilian brain (fight or flight) and the frontal brain (reason, planning and more) cannot work at the same time and that the reptilian brain will take over the frontal lobe because of its power; the vaga (sp? a nerve) nerve is then blocked; this nerve is in 80% of our bodies. So when you do yoga, that nerve opens up and give positive energy to the rest of the body. I am sorry that is a horrible explanation,
but what i have told my instructor is how much better i was feeling, not as jumpy, not being in the past, fighting the PTSD, but staying in the moment. I am able to think more clearly and plan for my future instead of being in that fear mode as much. i don’t know exactly how it works, but it is; our thoughts of past experience and worry about tomorrow keeps us from opening or hearts to what can be; it keeps that vaga nerve blocked so no fresh energy can flow and HEAL our bodies.
obviously this is overly simplified and not explained well.
i hope i don’t sound like a total dumbass, but the yoga is working for me. i am not really concerned as the howz and whyz to its workings even though i think it is important to some degree to understand. i am not a scientist and facts and figures mean nothing to me when i know something is working. like aspirin, i know it works, but i don’t know why or how.
i do know i think (worry) too much and have been suicidal much of my life because i have been in that PTSD mode of transportation. this is what holds me back in most cases. because of my past, i (over think things) worry when i go out the door that something bad is going to happen so i stay home. i know in my head that is silly BUT i also know that if i do yoga before i go out, it is easier to get out the door and not be as freaked out by every little sound.
I do appreciate knowing how something works, but it is not the know all end all in my book. I spend too much time thinking, it puts me in a box and that box is lonely and pitiful. doing the yoga is helping me to open the lid to my box and see that there is more out there and it is not ALL scary.
I am sorry this is not really what you were talking about but it is what i thought of when i read your response. I am not really good at focusing so my apologizes. Thank you for speaking your ideas and being so thoughtful at the same time.
I guess it comes down to faith… I’d rather believe life has a point, and that love is the ultimate answer and conclusion, and the purpose for being here – to learn, and understand it . Than to believe life has no point, and is merely a cold, calculated series of mathematical equations that logical make sense in our minds.
But you should ask yourself why do you believe that love isn’t real, and logic based on human ideas and perceptions are, considering we don’t exactly know everything about our own existence.
@Denise
That’s great to hear! I haven’t tried yoga yet but it makes sense what you say about our “flight or fight” reactions which keep us in a low energy state, and those reactions are all caused by fear – over thinking and worrying etc. And something like yoga brings you into the present, out of those thoughts because you’re intensely focused on your body, relaxing and calming the mind.
Seems like the comments are in a huge chain now so hopefully you’ll see this haha.. but glad to hear you’re trying alternative healing techniques :)
Got your message P! try some yoga! it really is hard work and relaxing at the same time.
D
My heart goes out to you Natasha! I’m sure that it is very hard to open yourself up emotionally when history keeps telling you that people will let you down. I wish I could give you a big hug and convince you that there are people out there you will be able to open up to who will stand by you. I’ll try to be more practical though and just provide some of my thoughts.
I’m not bipolar myself but one of my best friends is. She is a wonderful, caring, compassionate, spirited girl and we get along very well. I feel like I can trust her and I think that she trusts me a lot (but, like you, she has been let down before and sometimes can be a little guarded). So how do we make the friendship work? We talk about pretty much everything. As she learned to trust me, she slowly let me in. We’ve spoken about the disorder, how it affects her on a daily basis, the anxiety that accompanies it, the highs and lows and how they affect her, not being able to get out of bed or answer the phone, etc. I think it helps her to talk about it but it also helps me to understand what is going on when she reacts differently than I would in the same situation. If you find yourself feeling ready to connect with someone, I highly recommend that you start talking to them so that, in the moment, they have a better understanding of what you are going through and may be less likely to ‘freak out’.
As we became closer, we also talked about the ‘what ifs’ and the reality of the friendships that had not survived. We talked about the possibility of her taking anger out on me and how we could get over it. We talked about what I would do if I was starting to ‘freak out’ – short of walking away.
My advice to you is not to give up hope that you will be able to connect with someone emotionally. Just be careful and, if you decide to let them in, help them to understand. As long as you are honest, communicating, and listening to each other, I think you have a very good chance that a person will stay for the long haul. And you deserve that kind of relationship!
As you are probably aware by now, when I answer your blog, I feel safe enough to respond fully and without fear. Now it seems to be your turn to lean to us ! When I finished reading your blog, I was aghast at how strong my empathy for your plight overwhelmed me. Although I’ve never met you, nor probably ever will, I was upset to the point of getting a case of the physical shakes ! As a certified Peer I am required to be able to tell my story, and by reading the depths you’ve exposed of yourself, I see the schism of my personal telling of my story, and the professional gloss and lightness I reveal to those I serve. I can read people fairly well, and I go only as far as I believe a client can deal with. For anyone to go through what you ( and all of us ) go through causes many of us end up wandering a long and empty road. I am flooded with the truth of my broken hopes and memories going all the way back to my teens. I will be 56 this April the 13th, and I have come to the conclusion that alone is far better than hurting anyone else.
Don’t worry though, what you have written has only brought me to a point where I can continue to work on my self, a wake-up call if you will. It is you and all of the others that I feel for at the moment. Even with all that is going on with me, I am a gentleman, and should you need to talk, all you have to do is e-mail me. Besides, I’m a good ” listener. “
I too am a certified peer specialist and I had about the same reaction you did. This blog really hit home for me and described almost too well what it’s like inside my mind…
May I ask a question to those of you who are so honestly and generously responding to Natasha’s piece here. In your opinion, in an ideal world, how would you like friends and family to respond to you when you are feeling a lack of connectedness or like you need space to be alone? Or is that not even something that enters into the picture? As a friend, I’m always somewhat concerned that if I give the space that seems to be desired, it will somehow be interpreted as not caring despite repeated assurances that I do care. Are there ways in which you think a friend or family member can reach out or would you truly prefer to come back into contact on your own terms? I hope it’s ok that I’m asking. Please feel free not to answer if I’ve asked something too personal.
Andrea,
I love so much that you are asking this question. :)
I know I can only speak for myself when I say that I definitely need to be left alone and to reconnect when I feel safe to do so. I trust the love of my friends and family enough to know that they care even if they’re not trying to contact me every day. They know me well enough to know that I need to deal with stuff on my own and sift through it myself before I can even think about sharing it with them. And for me, even as much as I know the heart behind their efforts, trying to get me to make efforts at communication or anything is just adding more stress to an already horribly stressful situation (even if it’s only in my head).
Everyone is different though. The best thing is to be open and honest with whoever the person is in your life who is struggling through this. Tell them that you want to try to understand. Please, PLEASE, do not patronizingly say to them that you DO understand. Ugh!!! :) But maybe when they’re in a safe frame of mind, when they’re willing to meet and communicate, let them know that you are there just to listen, to try to understand what this disorder is like for them. ASK THEM WHAT THEY WANT you to do to help when they’re down, if anything. For me, it’s good just to know that people will be there when I’m ready. I wish they made more effort to understand what I need, as you have done here, but I know they love me no matter what, and that in itself is a huge good thing. :)
Trisha–
Thank you so much for your response. I’m so grateful to hear your thoughts. While I’m aware that you can only express your own perspective, it is heartening to know that, at least from your point of view, being “given space” does indeed come across as a caring and respectful gesture. Both personally and professionally, my instinct is to always try to “do” something–to reach out in some way, to offer solutions and help of some kind. It has taken me quite a while (and no small amount of emotional energy) to fully grasp that the distance I allow IS doing something–it IS helpful, and in that moment (or very long string of moments), it is enough to just wait. I think, and in this instance I can only offer MY own perspective as well, that there is always the fear on my part (and perhaps on the part of other friends and family of people diagnosed with bipolar disorder) that when a person I love is struggling and asks for some time to hunker down alone, to disengage emotionally, that they won’t come back–and that they will interpret my acceptance of their withdrawal as a lack of caring or effort–precisely because they fear rejection. I’m not certain I’m articulating this properly, but at the end of the day, it seems to come down to trust on both ends–trusting that the friendship is real and can weather whatever life throws at it. So, it’s a process for all involved, I think. It’s tough not to take things personally–we’re all human after all–but having you share your thoughts helps to validate that, to my friend, having the freedom to come and go emotionally truly does feel supportive, So, thank you for your thoughts. They have made a rough day a bit easier.
Andrea,
Your comments have done the same for me. I am currently working through this very situation with my best friend. I’ve always been the listener, and she the verbal processor. I’ve never discussed in depth what I go through in my mind, because I always felt something like a dismissive attitude in her facial expressions whenever I would try. It shut me down immediately and eventually made me angry. Recently, she sent me a text message about a t-shirt she had bought…just a silly, unnecessary kind of text that best friends send each other because they care about even the little things in each others’ lives. But at the moment I received that text I was actually in such a low state that I was planning my suicide. I felt so much distance from her that I almost wanted to stop talking to her altogether. But talking is what is going to help us through. I finally told her how I was perceiving things, and she told me her concerns. She sent the silly text because she knew I was hurting and just wanted to remind me that she cared. But for me, it was kind of a slap in the face from someone who can happily live her life without these struggles. I KNOW she doesn’t mean it in that way, but that’s how it FEELS, regardless of her intent. It’s not a slap from her, really, but from life.
Anyway, all of that to say that your comments are helping me understand things from her perspective…that she doesn’t want me to feel abandoned or unloved. I need to better express to her that I just need time to reset myself, and that even her most beautiful, well-intended attempts at communication tend to make things worse for me. I feel not only like a failure at life for not being able to be happy, but I feel like a bad friend for not being able to communicate in return. So we still have some talking to do, and thank YOU for helping bring me some clarity. We all need each other in this ridiculous world. :)
hi trisha, i liked what you said “just need time to reset myself”. that’s a really good way to say it. :)
Trisha–thanks so much for sharing that story. Maybe we’ve hit on a new kind of therapy–surrogate communication! Haha.
In all seriousness though, I think what you’re expressing is VERY close to what my friend feels (as near as I can gather, at any rate), and perhaps what many people who struggle with depression feel. As such, it’s inordinately helpful for me to hear it. So, while I certainly can’t speak for your friend, perhaps I can return the favor and share with you a little more of how I feel, because maybe your friend is coming from a similar perspective: I feel selfish when I focus on my relationship with my friend, or when I want to talk to him about our friendship, because I know he has so many other things to deal with just to get through the day–I’m quite sure that my feelings and/or our relationship are by necessity at the bottom of his priority list. I feel powerless and frustrated because, although I know this is beyond silly, I feel like I should be able to love him into being happy. That because I care for him so very much, that should magically make him feel happy (and you can imagine how ridiculous a feeling that is for a SHRINK to have!). It’s completely irrational, I’m well aware, but that’s the honest truth. And I feel confused, because although i can understand his experience on a cognitive level (and on a “clinical” level–which may or may not apply to your friend, I don’t know what her professional background is) I cannot truly relate to it and therefore I can’t ever REALLY understand the things he tells me he feels–and I fear that inability on my part may come off as disbelief or as dismissal, but it’s truly not. And sometimes, to be honest, I’m a little angry with him because I feel that I’m putting in all the emotional effort and even though it would be so easy for him to reciprocate–even just a text saying “Love you”–he doesn’t (can’t? won’t?). And that feels to me like he’s being selfish, even though I’m pretty sure that what seems like a simple expression of affection to me, is not necessarily nearly as simple for him. And still, I can’t help but want that from him. And lastly, believe it or not, I get more than a little bit angry at myself and more than a little bit ashamed of myself for having all of these feelings, because I know that really, in the grand scheme of things and at the end of the day, he does love me and as his friend, if I am to be a true friend, I need to cut him a giant amount of emotional slack here.
BUT–and this is REALLY, REALLY important–I am absolutely aware that these are MY feelings. I own them. I take full responsibility for them. And I have them because I’m human, NOT because HE is a bad friend, or because there’s something wrong with ME, but because these are things that people feel. They just do. With or without a mood disorder, these are the intricacies and complexities of real friendship–it’s not a “good” friend or “bad” friend thing. It’s just human dynamics.
Above all though, and pretty much no matter what, I love him. And he loves me. And when push comes to shove, we trust that in each other, I think (I hope). So, Trisha? Please don’t give up on your friend. Trivial texts are just a way of reaching out when she doesn’t know what else to do. Or a way of saying, “let me distract you from your pain, just for a moment, because that’s all I know how to do.” She might just need some guidance as to how to be supportive to you as well as some explanation, as difficult as it might be, of why the things you ask of her are important to you. Because, at least from where I sit, that conversation feels like a giant embrace–it’s you saying, “you are so important to me that I am going to be honest with you and tell you what I really need right now.” And if you can’t articulate what you need, then tell her that. Because that’s ok too. Really. Because I suspect that just knowing that she matters to you that much, might be way more than enough.
“I feel selfish when I focus on my relationship with my friend, or when I want to talk to him about our friendship, because I know he has so many other things to deal with just to get through the day–I’m quite sure that my feelings and/or our relationship are by necessity at the bottom of his priority list. ”
NOOOOOOO!!!! :) 1) You are NOT selfish for caring about your relationship and wanting to work things out. And for his part (because I feel this on my end) he is not selfish for needing the time apart. It’s just the way things are. The selfish thing would be to ignore each other completely and walk away rather than try to understand and help each other through. 2) You are NOT at the bottom of his priority list! (Yes, I see the surrogate therapy. Excellent idea! Allow me to speak freely for your friend. ;) ) People in our position struggle to have priorities at all, because it’s hard to care about anything. It’s more like seeing all the things you wish you could care about flying around in the sky while you are trapped at the bottom of a well. If you can manage to claw your way to the top of it, trust me, friends are a priority! At the bottom though, your only priority is finding a way out. It helps to know that your friends will be kind enough to wait for you at the top, but kind of frustrating if they’re peeking down with an occasional “Still down there? Can I help?” Because you can’t. We so wish you could. My friend likes to try to encourage me with things like, “You’re gorgeous…you’re valuable…etc” So well-intended, and I know those are things she needs to hear. But I finally had to tell her how irritating they are. The only words of encouragement I need in the dark times are the reminders that things are temporary, and the dark won’t last forever.
” I feel like I should be able to love him into being happy. That because I care for him so very much, that should magically make him feel happy… It’s completely irrational…”
This made me hurt for you so much! I think two of the others on this thread were debating love and rationality. Or something. Love can heal many things, but not depression. I marvel at the mind…how it can compensate for and overcome so much physical pain – broken bones, sprains, etc. We can, with some serious will, get up and “walk it off”. But when the mind is broken, there is no compensation. There is no back up. There simply is no will, no matter how much we want there to be. But I can tell you for myself that knowing my friends and family love me, while it doesn’t make me happy, it gives me strength to keep trying. And that’s something huge.
” I can’t ever REALLY understand the things he tells me he feels–and I fear that inability on my part may come off as disbelief or as dismissal, but it’s truly not.”
Thank you for that. My friend also expressed that she felt uncomfortable and afraid of saying the wrong things, and that perhaps that’s what I was seeing in her face.
” I feel that I’m putting in all the emotional effort and even though it would be so easy for him to reciprocate–even just a text saying “Love you”–he doesn’t (can’t? won’t?). And that feels to me like he’s being selfish, even though I’m pretty sure that what seems like a simple expression of affection to me, is not necessarily nearly as simple for him. And still, I can’t help but want that from him.”
There are a very few things that I make it a point to do, even if I’m only going through the motions with no feeling involved (and this is hard for me, because I hate things that are not genuine). Texting her back with “Love you” is one of them. Sometimes, in fact, it’s the only reply I can give her, because I just don’t have anything to say, but I want her to know that I’m trying. Maybe you can ask your friend to at least give you something, even if it’s not something he can necessarily “feel” at the time.
So much more…but it all adds up again to a huge THANK YOU for your encouragement and insight! I reckon our friends are lucky to have us. ;)
The biggest issue for me, in my circle is that most have no clue what any MI is all about and they don’t seem interested in learning even if I send this a site to read and learn more. If i have a sick friend I ask questions and see how I can help. Simply, i wish they’d just ask, “how can i help you right now?”. “is there anything I can do?” Maybe suggest something. Like do you need a hug? quiet? want to have some tea? wanna make cupcakes? If I just want to go to bed, then respect that and check on me later, let me know you care. You don’t have to do much and only offer what you can. Please don’t offer if it is an inconvenience. I am mostly home bound (PTSD and agoraphobic) so people who offer to go grocery shopping with me are my saviors! People willing to stand in line at the food bank are also my saviors! I can’t think of anything else right now, but those are the ones that most stand out today cause I need food in the house and I am afraid to leave. i am terrified!
I am terrified of so many things. the things I really want are needs I can’t express, like needing to be held. I think if someone touched me right now, I burst into uncontrolled sobbing. I don’t want the sex part, that is not what i am talking about, i want to feel safe. I want to know that whomever i share with is a safe person that will not hurt me.
thanks for asking. I feel very exposed right now.
Thanks so much for sharing that, Denise. It couldn’t have been easy. I’m sorry you don’t have more support. Truly. It’s amazing that it really can take so little to lend a hand to people who are struggling, yet it seems to happen far less frequently than it ought to. I think that your point regarding just naturally asking a “sick” friend what you might do to help, is such a poignant one. As a psychologist in Global Mental Health, one of the areas on which I am largely focused, is the stigma surrounding mental illness, and the staggeringly negative consequences of stigma on both the individual and the communities in which they live. I read a piece a while back written by a parent of a teen who had been hospitalized for symptoms of schizophrenia, called “No One Brought Cake” about the reluctance of friends, family, and neighbors to extend themselves to those whose lives have been touched, or who to those who have been touched themselves, by mental illness. To me, extending those things you’ve suggested–a hug, an offer to run errands–should be as natural as offering someone a tissue when they sneeze. If it helps at all, please know that there are people out there who are working on it–we’ll get there eventually. And also know, and I mean this most sincerely, if I were able to, I’d be right over to you with tea and a hug in return for the kindness you’ve shown me by sharing your thoughts. Really.
thank you andrea, it means a lot to hear you say that. it’s been such an internally tearful day. so many people reaching out to reassure me; i am grateful.
i have really put myself into a box since all the deaths of my loved ones. i know i don’t reach out, i can’t even seem to talk to my therapist the way i need to. don’t get me wrong, she is awesome beyond words! It is me. i am so afraid to get emotionally close to anyone for fear they too will die or reject me. I know I am brutally fragile. so thank you.
i hope others who who want to help, can begin to reach out and show the little ways in which to care that have big meaning. how i would love to have a knock on my door right now for a piece of human company. I might be scared to open it, but it would be nice.
people with mi are so ostracized, we are looked at like we are violent!, scary!, child molesters!!!, like we are contagious, but it my experience that mi peeps that are often victims of violence. the stigma you mentioned is so real.
Maybe you can answer this for me andrea. why are people afraid of us? why do they hate us and think we are like this on purpose? i just want acceptance. isn’t that want many of us want? i don’t want to fight, I can’t fight! i don’t have the energy. we need people like you to fight for us. thank you. D
Hi Denise–so sorry to hear you’re having a rough go of it right now. I certainly can’t pretend to understand what that must be like, but I’ve worked with and loved so many people who struggle with mental illness that I do see how incredibly painful and exhausting and frustrating and isolating it can be. But I have also seen the unreal resilience people with mental illness can exhibit through it all. We should all have that kind of strength and determination. As to your question about why stigma exists, I think there are many, many answers to that. In my opinion, the distilled (and over-simplified) answer is that there is an endless loop of fear. People are afraid of things that they don’t understand. That fear causes them to act defensively, and that defensiveness leads to stereotyping–stereotyping is a way to create and “us” and “them” mentality–ensuring that “we” are not like “those” people. The stereotypes then induce fear. And the whole thing starts again. That’s my quick and dirty theory, anyway. And, of course, the media certainly doesn’t help things. But we really are making strides. There’s been much more focus on mental health and mental illness globally, and my hope is that one day, with lots of work, it’ll go the way of the other things that have historically fallen prey to stigma–Breast Cancer, Divorce, HIV/AIDS, Same-Sex Relationships. The worst part of the stigma situation, though, is that it does prevent people from seeking treatment and from reaching out to friends and peers for fear of being labeled, or fired from a job, or abandoned. And while I’m sure this isn’t of much comfort, these things keep me up at night. There’s a solution to this and we’ll find it. And I might be the wrong person to ask–some of my favorite people (including my closest friend) struggle with mental illness–and they are exponentially better human beings than some of the “sane” characters we have walking around the earth. My favorite quote currently is from Rupert Brooks, “”I always endeavour to be as mad as possible in this sane grey world; and I shall not insult you by calling you sane”” My two cents, for what it’s worth. Hang in there, please, Denise. I think it’ll get better.
Interesting how a peer must be certified. Are all the laws and people and funding people going to the top also “certified peers” . Not to mention the prople doing the certifying. I though all of us as human being are peers. I know the law in the US for jury duty etc. doesn’t believe this as well as most famously British aristocracy and the hypocrite queen also.
I can relate to all of this. I have always found it hard to connect even before I was diagnosed. I often lost my temper and said things I regretted losing friends. Now I know why. Since I started owning up to being bi-polar, despite being careful who I owned up to, I have been surprised at how many people have disappeared off the radar. I am still in a relationship with my second husband but we don’t live together as I need solitude. He is understanding when I am disconnected and waits for the low or high to level out. I am wary of making new friends. I avoid contact with some friends when I am low as their comments are so unhelpful. I have many friends I can meet with every few weeks for coffee but I resist getting over involved. I choose to see them only when I am feeling ok. These friends wake up feeling the same each day and I know they can’t understand how variable I am. It is difficult to plan anything – I have backed out and let people down in the past. I have three understanding daughters and grandchildren who are non-judgemental and I am close to them. Email is good as I can write when I feel like it. But living with the aftermath of manic episodes is hard. I have often sent ranting emails, nonsense emails and, sadly, these people rarely keep in touch now, a constant reminder of what I did. Sometimes I find an email I can’t remember sending in my sent box that makes me so ashamed. I don’t know what the answer is. Just to choose who you confide in carefully and learn to accept yourself. Stay in the moment. The garbled emails I sent are in the past and I don’t know what the future holds but trying to stay grounded in the moment may stop this happening again. Thank you Natasha for your posts which are so helpful.
i relate to what you have said in many ways. although living alone has been an adjustment in many ways, i rather like the solitude. it i snot lonely to me like I thought it would be; the conversations in my head keeps me plenty busy :) i don’t have to worry bout hurting someone feelings if I want to be alone! that is a big one for me. I do not have a phone either, that saves my butt often. avoidance is my way to handle people now. no friends no arguments! i am terrified when i am talking to someone and it feels like they want to get to know me!!!
I didn’t have a phone or computer for over eight years. Didn’t miss it for about seven.
Holy cow, Di!! I totally get the rambling emails.
I have blown up and sent some horrific emails. Mostly to my Sister. She pushes a button, and I fly off the handle. I don’t know if that’s similar… thankfully she is very forgiving. Ironic as she can be a very critical person, and her criticism is usually what makes me fly off the handle!
I’m sorry you’re having to live separately from your husband, but it sounds as if the two of you have found a way to make things work for now. I hope you and he can get back to living in the same place soon.
I often have reoccurring nightmares where I’m either living back with my folks (which makes no sense… Mom is dead, and Dad is in a nursing home), or in an apartment, or sortof both. My husband comes to visit me. Somewhere in the dream I remember that he and I have a house together, and wonder WTF I’m doing there either back with my folks or in the apartment??? Have no idea what it means. Maybe a fear of losing him, or maybe a fear that I’ll just go run away or something.
The nightmares have lessoned a bit since we now have a son together. Our son is 6. I’m almost 46.
Know the feeling, but……………………..oh yes, I’m the great pretender………………….
and so tired, do not dare to let anyone know what I feel!!!
As both a psychologist and someone whose dearest friend has Bipolar Disorder II, I frequently read your blog for its first person-experience narrative, Natasha. I have told you before, via twitter, that I find your insights incredibly clarifying on both a personal and professional level–but none more so than this piece.
Literally a week ago, I had a conversation with the friend I just mentioned–a heated conversation the crux of which was that he was angry with me for being what he felt was “overly sensitive” to his seeming to be willfully unwilling to reciprocate love.
My response to that was that in the face of his lack of expression of affection and positive emotion, I couldn’t see how I should view it any way other than personal and hurtful. That there was an inordinate lack of balance between his emotional stand-off-ish-ness and his expression of love. And given our friendship, I couldn’t understand how he couldn’t see why that felt hurtful to me
His explanation in sum and substance, was, “I don’t experience emotions the way other people do. I don’t experience feelings of love the way you do. I can’t. It’s almost like I’m missing whatever step it is that allows me to process whatever emotion it takes to feel connected the way you do. You can’t relate to that at all, but that’s how it feels.” And after reading your piece, I truly believe that although he could not (or perhaps just did not) explain that the tight reign he keeps on all of his feelings is resultant from his fear of the consequences of unleashing them, I think that that is an enormous part of it for him.
And yes, I can’t really relate; while it makes sense to me cognitively (particularly as a psychologist), it is not something I can truly understand. But his forthright, (and brave) admission was more than enough. Because what I needed to hear, in that moment, was that it isn’t about me. It isn’t personal. That he does love me as best he can, in the only way he currently knows how.
And knowing that is a more than adequate reason for me to believe in our friendship, to trust that he cares, and to be patient with our divergent emotional styles.
So, I wanted to tell you, not as a professional, but from the personal perspective of someone on the other side of the “connectedness gap” you describe, that sometimes just being let into what the experience of having bipolar disorder feels like, how it impacts one emotionally, can be a bridge across that divide.
Taking the time to thoughtfully explain the lack of connectedness is in itself a way of connecting, I think. And one that, at least for me, is more than enough–because the willingness to do that is an expression of love in and of itself
So, thank you. Again. Your articulation of your emotional and interpersonal experiences, and of this experience in particular, has been incredibly helpful and validating, and has touched me more than you can imagine.
“I don’t experience emotions the way other people do. I don’t experience feelings of love the way you do. I can’t. It’s almost like I’m missing whatever step it is that allows me to process whatever emotion it takes to feel connected the way you do.”
We can intellectualize how a depressed person thinks or feels – but it’s really not that complicated. It comes down to one thing – not feeling a sense of love for ones self. And when I say self love.. I mean a sense of contentment with oneself, I feeling of not need anything to be happy, being free of our own self judgements. This is why depressed people feel emotionally cutt off, or empty inside… or unable to express their feelings and have trouble in relationships. Because how can you understand love, if you don’t exactly know it or feel it yourself.
To love someone else unconditionally, you have to come from a place of love. Because then you have nothing to lose – you’re not expecting anything in return.. A depressed person, feels like they have something to lose. To love, is to be vulnerable, it’s a scarey thing. And if you’re depressed you live with a sense of fear, a fear of judgement, a fear being abandoned, labelled, stigmatized, alienated. So opening up to someone, letting that guard is extremely difficult. We don’t really want to set our self up by having someone else that we care about confirm what we already worry about about ourselves. How hurtful is that?
As a bipolar person myself who’s come along away through my recovery, the most important thing I have learnt and which saved me from myself is knowing that you can’t understand love with your mind, it’s once you put away that concept of love, or that it exists outside of yourself, and realize love is the key to knowing yourself and being truly happy.. and it all starts with yourself.
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out all fear. Once we are ready to face our own fears, and ourselves, will be free from fear and then know love, and how to love others unconditionally, knowing love not as a concept, or an idea from your experience of love… but truly knowing it, as being who you are.
How do you make this stuff up. You sound like you are selling a cheap self help book. Please, how about a little honesty and less Anthony Robbins. I may vomit. W.N.
Well we can choose to be a victim of our mind, or we can choose to believe we have the power to help ourselves. It’s just a mindset, and love is the key to get you there, once you realize that who you are is more than just bundle of thoughts in your mind.
You seem like a logical guy, so you should start to see that thoughts is just imagination anyways, so ask yourself, what is the only thing that is real, which give live meaning and purpose. Logic or love?
For my website link – linked to my most recent post.
I can relate and I think I touch on some rleatable points.
Also, glad this is a post/link of yours that’s easily readable on my phone.
Natasha,
You are in an emotionally charged state, I think, and feeling depressed right now. I recognize the anguish in your repetitive logic and needless self-depreciation, repeating the same words in a poetic mantra: “If, indeed, a person really did want to get to know me (although why, I don’t know)…But it sure feels universal to me. Emotional disconnectedness sure feels like the only option to me. Connecting with others sure feels dangerous and pointless to me. It feels like that connection just puts the other person in a place to rip the still-beating heart from your chest – and they will. They will do it when they tell you that they can’t handle you. They will do it when they say they are afraid of your huge emotions. They will do it when they tell you that they’re too scared you will suicide. They’ll do it when they decide you’re not worth the bother.”
If you want to vent “off the record” send me an email. Nothing scares me. You have helped many people, it’s true: make sure you’re one of those people. If you can ease someone’s suffering, you will be doing an amazing thing. If that someone is you, it still counts.
In the meantime, you can see that there are others who “get it” and have experienced similar feelings. It’s okay.
yer a sweetie dawn. very observant!
My partner just thought my going 100 miles an hour was just my quirk. Even with me withdrawn for long periods of time. 17 years this May, if that isn’t love then I don’t know what is. I’m generally a social person, before I met my partner I had a lot of friends, a lot of them I met in NA or AA. Most of them were high energy people, some were probably Bipolar. We could keep up to each other. I lived in Ca then, now I am just outside Seattle. It’s mostly family now, that and online friends and acquaintances. I pour my energy into art, exercise. My brain is noisy enough so for the most part I like the quite of home. I do like it when my niece and nephews come over.
I think it’s normal for most when they have a close romantic relationship to not be so close to there friends and family at that time. That’s my experience and what i see from my friends and family.
sorry my head is jumping all over tonight, hope I can connect the dots. it is so nice when people understand what others are going though! sometimes i hear what someone says and think to miself, “holy cow, how come i never thought of that, THAT’s what’s going on!” so thank you and many of the commentary below! wow all I can think right now is WOW! i am not sure what to say (but i will try). I am touched by your heartfelt words. as well as so many of the others whose follow. i don’t think I’ve ever sensed anything like this from your writings in the past.
i have always found what you’ve said to be helpful in the day to day struggles, even if it is only to distract me from my own pain and problems. seeing your posts are like waiting for that special package to come in the mail. And seeing all the other hearts expressing is wonderful too! everyone’s openness here is amazing to me!
most of the time i feel like a broken wind up toy being played with too much and stuck after being wound too tightly, unable to move or function, waiting for the pin to break and let me go, so anxious that i think if one more feeling comes, i will explode into a million pieces. so i push everyone away. on purpose so they won’t see me if i do explode. have that constant feeling i need to run away, but where do i go!?
i used to belong to a widows group, they get together ever year, like a huge conventions of widows! People from all over the world go to it! I bet if you organized something like it, you’d find that perfect someone/s to share your life with if that is what your heart desires.
i’ve spoken with others about my not wanting to be with people (especially if it is an intimate relationship) and that I do not get lonely. maybe I am just hiding from my pain of the possibility of getting hurt again or hurting others. i’m not sure. however, i believe there is someone delightful out there for anyone who wants it. there are millions of people on this planet and many of them are just like us in the “crazy department”. i do believe we are all a little “crazy”, we are all just a little different kind of crazy.
wishing you and all of us the best,
D
I havw struggled with this “disconnection” for years. Sometimes it can be months until I talk to my dearest friends again. It is a struggle to open up and connect with others when my anxiety and overwhelming mood swings take over. This ultimately destroyed my marriage. I have found someone else. Someone who swears he wants to be by my side through the ups and downs but I wonder…I wonder what he will do when I need to disconnect, when I need to isolate to quiet down the noise in my head.
I can also relate to this, as a person with bipolar disorder. BOY can I relate. As a young person, I connected with people emotionally and not only did it drain me, I also got burned out on people leaving because I was “too much” . So I gave up trying to have emotional relationships with others (except for my husband, and that took many years and many tears and near divorce several times). I had no friends for 10 years. I was very ill and embarrassed of how I behaved at the time. I went through hell with only my husband for support, until he crashed and burned from dealing with my illness, and he had to go to therapy to save our marriage. Then I joined Facebook in 2008 (at age 37). I found that several of my old friends were delighted to ‘see” me again. Several did not accept my friend request, though, and yes, that hurt. But I made new friends, and I was open for the first time in 10 years. The first thing I did when I joined FB was write a long blog detailing all the horror I had been through with the illness,and to let people know that, despite being on medication, my lousy behaviors hadn’t really changed much, in fact, the disease had gotten worse, so my behaviors are even more irrational! I was shocked at the replies…some said they were moved to tears, most of them liked how blunt I was, and many regretted that they hadn’t been there for me through the difficult times The cold, hard truth is that we with bipolar disorder burn most people out fairly quickly. TI isn’t a secret that we are hard people to be friends with. We can spend our lives being victims, choking back our illness (and therefore, our personality) so others will accept us, or we can be ourselves and if people don’t like it, they move on and so do we. Of course that stings, it’s like a punch in the gut, because I have no control over who decides they want to be my friend. But I can control how I react to it. Don’t say you can’t control your reaction, because you CAN. It takes a lot of work! YEARS of work! I have busted my butt to learn how to accept rejection wtihout letting it destroy me. I’ve also had to learn how to educate my children so they don’t end up emotional cripples from having a nutty mother on disability who can’t remember how to make toast some days and goes like a bat out of hell on other days. But I refuse to be a victim of bipolar disorder anymore. If someone doesn’t want to be friends with me, it’s their problem, not my problem. As someone else said in the comments, I think when we give up control, that is when we actually gain control of our happiness.
As I bipolar person I can relate to this. We have a deep well of emotions within us, and we’re more sensitive, so being emotionally distant it our defense mechanism, it’s our little cocoon we live in to feel safe, and have some control. And we’re so afraid of losing control, and being wounded by others, because we are ourselves wounded. We can’t always put on our happy face like everyone else without feeling like we’re pretending, playing some charade – because deep within us we feel lonely, we feel different, and we feel like people won’t understand or will judge us.
The way I see it, it’s harder to connect with someone if your sense of self is somewhat damaged from depression, or living with toxic shame and guilt from things that we did while manic. We’re afraid of judgement, we know we do things out of the norm, and it’s a scary thing to open up emotionally to someone, because we’re very afraid of triggering those self inflicted wounds we have and we spend so much time running from.
But for me, it comes down to acceptance, we can’t change the past, we can’t live in the future, we can only live in this moment, and we have the choice to accept ourselves for who we are, and that we do have the power to be happy. Happiness is mindset, a state of being.. and true happiness lies not in what others think about you – it’s what you think about yourself. If you can put the past away, and live more in the moment, and come from a place of self forgiveness and acceptance, that you’re just a human being trying to get by and you deserve to be happy, then you’ll learn to love yourself for who you are in the present. And if you come from a place of deeply knowing yourself, understand your fears, knowing your true desires, and come from a place of love, and putting away that mask we hide behind sometimes. Then it becomes easier to emotionally connect with others, because you have nothing to lose if you know who you are. All that matters is what you think, and if you can come out of depression and discover who you truly are, then you a free from your old self, and on the path way to being truly happy and have the confidence to express how you feel.
Dear Natasha,
I’d like to share some thoughts with you as I read and see you now.
“What I think she might have meant was that I was hard to get to know emotionally. I think what she was saying is that I wasn’t showing my emotions around her and that was the hard part to get to know.”
Way back when, when I first came to know of you I think in fact you wrote with unbridled raw emotions evoking and relating your inner most thoughts. That is sharing your inner most feelings without us truly knowing your name or geographical residence. It was those raw emotions grippingly written and being challenged by your illness that I had not read in many of the others blogs that I’ve read over these many years that was an immediate attraction for me.
Now that’s you’ve changed vocations and moved on in your writing career and shared your name with us you’ve continued to write about challenging emotional subjects that many of your readers can easily relate to but you have tended to sanitize your writings and emotions more so as if you’re looking in rather than exploding outward whether for editorial or legal purposes but certainly not in the same vain as your earliest presentations.
I am not criticizing the evolution of your writings or your emotional choices because I see your efforts as a strong advocacy to educate and encourage wellness for others. All that I am doing is sharing my perspective and thoughts on that evolution.
As always, I wish you and yours wellness and all the good you’d wish for yourself.
Sincerely,
Herb
Joyce and Herbert Stein
http://www.vnstherapy-herb.blogspot.com
http://www.vnstherapy.wordpress.com
I think it maybe the legal end. Natasha seems to be an honest woman. Whenever you shine a light on someone they are pushed to change and as human being are prone to change we all do. The challenge is to stay grounded and remember you are human. Natasha doesn’t seem to be a bottom feeding politician who uses sincerity to bait people only to use them later. Hell even some Physics tell us things change when observed. Maybe there are reasons people do anyway. I normal am not one to defend even my friends in a debate. A debate to me is to find the truth. Having said this I think Natasha did unfairly and does limit discussion on suicide and may use the legal excuse as newspaper reporters have done to me to limit debate on thinks they are uncomfortable with. I don’t know all the specifics but from what I’ve heard from her she is honest and does her best and is very intelligent and logical. Very logical.
OMG, You hit it head on. This is exactly how I feel with everyone. After awhile I just gave up because I hurt and they hurt. Ive had all that I can take.
Thanks for that. I wish to share my experiences with this but since I have been up all night I will return with something constructive to share on a better day.
This is such a sad article – so much hurt and loneliness. I gave up on friendships a long time ago. I miss having friends – it used to be so important to me. But I am married (29 years!) and have 3 grown children – I am so fortunate to have those relationships. But my husband chose me; my kids did not. Recently my son and I had a terrible blowup and he ended up telling me afterwards that having me as a mother had screwed him up emotionally. HE became emotionally disconnected – he buried his emotions as a kid because he was overwhelmed by mine – and now he can’t unbury them. I was a very controlling mother (anxiety issues), and my emotions went unchecked (inadequate treatment). I can’t tell you how awful I feel about doing this to him. He has terrible trouble getting close to people because of it, but he has insight and is working on that now.
QUESTION: What’s worse, having a mother with titanic emotions or having a disconnected one?
What a great topic! I can totally relate because at times I am so disconnected from my own emotions because they are so intense, that how could I then be connected emotionally to others. And then there are brief periods of times where I am connected to others, but the nature of the disorder is such that when negative symptoms arise I become emotionally disconnected again, and in people without the disorder this just doesn’t happen. Therefore, those relationships are often lists or damaged, not because of intentional malice on the other persons part but I think more from lack of understanding of the way the disorder works. My husband understands it and therefore can be patient during my times of emotional shutdown and not take it personally to the point where are relationship suffers. Most people are not like him, but they could be with proper education and commitment to the relationship. I know it is really hard for him, but he has a level of acceptance I will never comprehend. I also have friend that I see once every few months that I am emotionally connected to. They understand my ups and downs and don’t take it personally. There are people out there…it is possible. Don’t lose hope.
Emotionally connected with the psychologist? I don’t understand that at all. Mine just seems to be going to see a dude in a room that makes me tea, we talk, and I take an emotional dump there, cry 99% of the time and leave. Not working out so well right now. Not able to work on the biggest problem I’m faced with now.
I feel like I have been becoming less and less emotionally connected with my spouse, that’s for sure. I was/am tired of getting hurt. Now I wonder if I can even be “in love”, or love anyone else but my daughter, and I don’t even really have the skills to do that. She’s in college now. I’m not happy in my marriage.
I have one friend left…. Sometimes being a loner really sucks.
Thanks for your brutally honest and open post.
Wow! With the connection I have found with this blog, I have finally been able to admit that I am bipolar (to the delight of my therapist). I have time and time again gotten into relationships. Many of them have been long term. Each and every one of them have been terminated, usually by some behavior that I demonstrated. I perceived that I was in control of my emotions, yet I have always been frustrated by my emotions. I dislike myself because I dislike my emotions. I always think that I can hide in plain sight, but my out of control emotions blurt out when I least expect them. I agree that emotional disconnection sure does seem like the only answer, but I am so tired of being alone, even in a relationship.
That sounds like me too!
One friend, whom I considered my best friend, told me a couple months ago how he did not know me even after seven years of friendship. At that moment, I was already angry at him because I felt he let me down. When I tried to open up and tell him how I felt and what was the matter, he completely dismissed my feelings and told me I was a drama queen. I usually never open up because it always end up in a fight.
When I connect to others, and it takes a long while for this to happen, people usually go away or dismiss what I say. Disconnection is the everyday. I believe its related to dissociation and fear that others, who are not present anyway, will leave. Sometimes it is less invasive, and other times I’m just not there at all like a zombie would be.
Thank you for this article~
I can and like to, connect with others. I’m loyal,I’m decent and kind. I fall in love with my friends, and count on them forever. When I get hurt by someone I love- it bothers me forever. I love being honest and loving-b/c you attract the same types of friends.
Sadly, there’s no such thing as forever, and lack of communication, lies, jealousy or just having a bad day can wreck a friendship. No one wants to say “I was wrong”. or I was an “assh**le” or ‘it was my fault’ or ‘I didn’t understand you’ or just –“let’s talk’. no one. maybe your spouse. oh yes a loving spouse. He/she knows the best of you and who you really are and what you’re worth. He’ll even tell you you’re a jerk- and when it happened. It’s nice to be close to a friend..very nice. Don’t throw it away. xoxoxo
I remember disclosing that I had bipolar on a second date with someone, and he freaked out and almost broke up with me. It was devastating, because I couldn’t change who I am and it was my worst fear. But he stuck in there, learned to live with my ups and downs, and we’ve been married for almost two years. I have no quick fix or easy solution to offer, but wanted to share my story as an example that it can exist. Thank you for sharing and keep hope.
So honest and so heartfelt. I must tell you Natasha. You are not the only one. All you said also applies to me, Other then the trusting the Drs. (I see them as mostly loyal to the gov. and only loyal to the patient second). I wonder how many others feel the same. I can never seem to connect with people the way I wish. Always feel like I must hide something. Like they say “anything can and will be used against you”. Usually not can but will.
I’ve often wondered about this emotional disconnect many a time myself. I’ve talked to my therapist on numerous occasions about why I can’t connect with other people no matter how much I want to. I’m friendly with others, but never friends. I guess I scare myself enough that I don’t want to show that to others. I’m married and have 4 kids, and I still have a hard time being there emotionally. It’s really difficult for my spouse and my kids. I used to wear my heart on my sleeve for the world to see, and I seemed to have a lot of friends back then, but they all ultimately ended up leaving me. Since then, I’ve never let myself go enough to be friends with anyone. We’re talking ten years of living behind a facade just to protect myself. I read your article hoping you’d have more insight into why this happens, but it would seem you’re just as confused by it as I am. Maybe one day things will just ‘click’ and we won’t have to fight the crazy so much that it keeps us from making lasting relationships.
– Connecting with others sure feels dangerous and pointless to me. It feels like that connection just puts the other person in a place to rip the still-beating heart from your chest –
Having someone express their frustration over and over again that you don’t open up to them emotionally, then opening up to them and seeing them not take you seriously/be frightened/bail on you (pick one) is just so painful and confusing.