I hear people say they have “down days” in bipolar disorder. These people are, typically, those who are doing well but still have these things called “down days.” But what is a “down day?” What are these people talking about? I do not identify with this concept at all. My bipolar disorder don’t contain “down days” it contains days, weeks and months that try to kill me.
What Are ‘Down Days?’
I don’t claim to be able to speak for everyone who has ever used this term, but it seems to me that these people are not talking about serious, major depression. These people seem to be talking about days when they don’t feel their best. These people seem to be talking about non-top-drawer days. These people seem to be talking about blips on the radar. This is totally okay but it isn’t my experience remotely.
It’s also possible that these people are trying to downplay the severity of their illness for others, and, as I say below, I really wish people wouldn’t do that.
My Issue with ‘Down Days’ in Bipolar Disorder
My issue with the concept of “down days” in bipolar disorder is that it completely minimizes the experience of actual depression. It’s okay to say that you’re well enough that you no longer experience depression (after all, that’s what bipolar treatment is intended to do) but to say, “well, I still have my down days,” seems so invalidating of the experience of what bipolar disorder really is. Bipolar disorder is about major mood elevations and depressions – it’s about meteoric rises and craterous lows. If it wasn’t about these extreme states, it wouldn’t be a disorder.
I Do Not Have ‘Down’ Bipolar Days
I do not have “down days.” I have nothing of the sort. I have days that try to kill me. I have days that are so overstuffed with pain that I barely scrape by. I have days that are soaked in tears and are scored by a soundtrack of wailing. These are not “down days” and even if I only experienced this a day at a time (which I don’t) I wouldn’t characterize them as “down,” I would say they are potentially lethal days.
I really don’t mind how people describe themselves and their experiences, so if you want to say, “down days” that really is your business. I would just ask that you consider all those people with bipolar disorder that experience something so much more extreme and maybe work to differentiate yourself from those people. “Down days” sounds like a normal experience – and my experience is anything but normal. The last thing I want is the general population to think that real depression is a “down day” because it makes my fight against it and my fight to be really heard even harder.
just been reading comments on here really helps me relate im a 30 year old male i can usuallh manage to hold my self together my gp has messed all my meds up so iv been without sertraline and my new mood stabilizer for a week now today has hit me so hard i feel like i could just punch any body it sound daft but i got called good looking an i instNtly thought tney was taking the piss am i cracking up
A down day, for me, without medication, could represent a down month. A bad day With lamotrigine a bad day can represent maximum 2 bad days. Lamotrigine doesn’t work for ultra rapid cycling in me. There’s is no medication that lift me up instantaneously.
Furthermore…… after reading mollys comments I would like to express my sincerest plea that she be banned from this forum. Her comments are not helpful but hurtful. As a person who suffered with a diagnosis of major depressive disorder for nearly 15 years and who found no help with medication and spent many periods in my life unmediated…… I will tell you that I found great relief and freedom in my diagnosis. For the first time in my life I was able to understand what I was going through and was able to get help with both psychotherapy and with medication. My hypomanic and mixed episodes were absolutely not induced by medications. I have been seen by my psychologist for over 3 years who was very cautious to make any diagnosis. She is highly educated and along with my psychiatrist after 2 years of in depth counselling am correctly diagnosed and treated. How dare someone ever imply that my hypomania isn’t a serious medical concern. I assure you that it is.and my mixed states have presented themselves in 3 suicide attempts the last of which nearly did kill me. As a person who is looking for support and understanding in my mental health I find mollys comments to be counterproductive to the overall message of this forum. I am litterAlly being brought to tears during this comment because my chance for hope and happiness is largely thanks to my diagnosis. These ignorant, patronizing and arrogant comments have no place in a supportive and loving environment like this
Hi Shannon,
I’m sorry you were so upset by another user’s comments. I try to balance what is best for all with freedom of speech here, of which I am a big believer.
That said, Molly has been put on permanent moderation so I will see all her comments before deciding whether to allow them online.
She hasn’t been back since I did that.
– Natasha Tracy
So I would disagree with you. I think that everyone likely experiences this disorder slightly differently. I have all the range of days as any mentally healthy individual but the thing with my down days that is very different from someone with other disorders or who is healthier that I am is that my bad days can take a turn for the worse very rapidly if I’m not careful. I think that for me I experience emotions very deeply because of my bipolar disorder and so I may be more prone to have a small trigger become a down day, which can easily become a bad week or month or end up with self harm or into an emergency room. Furthermore a small negative trigger can bring about a down day that send some me spiralling in the opposite direction where I distract myself from the bad day with over stimulating myself. I don’t want to feel the bad so I desperately propel myself into partying or spending or socializing or hobbies which can quickly become a hypomanic episode and cause major damage to my life. Of course bipolar disorder is defined by our major mood changes. But every major mood change can be stimulated by a minor mood change. The difference with awareness of our condition is that we are observant of our down days. I think everyone with bp disorder can benefit from recognizing their bad days and trying to utilize coping mechanisms that can keep them from spiralling. Positive self talk, mindfulness and non judgement of feelings, acceptance and I always remind myself that often what I am feeling can be a symptom of my bipolar disorder. I am good at making an emotional mountain out of a mole hill. This too shall pass allows me often not to sink into the highs and lows of my bipolar disorder.
I have a question about dealing with someone who has a lot of down days. Is it better to just leave the person alone? To check in and then let it go when they don’t respond? I want to be a good friend, but personally, it is still hard to feel “blown off” when I am just trying to be supportive. Any thoughts?
Really Depends on the person. It depends if they want you there or not…
sometimes being left alone to cope is better, its easier. Sometimes what you need is someone to peel you out of bed, help you change your smelly cloths, draw a bath for you, try to get you to eat or drink something…
Ask them and see if they want you around or just stay around but you don’t need to be on top of them or catering to them unless they ask you to…
I personally hate when someone tries to “support” me but really translates to “adult” babysitting… I’m not a child… I am just depressed and sad and want to be left alone to sleep or cry… or do whatever is necessary to wait it out, until it passes…
But when I get to the I can’t follow a conversation, I can barely find the energy to get up… I can’t really think clearly, I forget everything, that’s typically when I need support of someone helping me physically do tasks.
I
I would like to clear up a misunderstanding re: the “bipolar
spectrum”, which somehow seems to be linked with my name, in one of
the comments. Although I have written on this topic, the concept of
a bipolar spectrum goes back nearly 100
years, and was described by the German psychiatrist, Emil Kraepelin
(1856-1926).
This, of course, was decades before U.S. psychiatrists began prescribing
medication for bipolar illness, and well before “Big Pharma” began to
grow in this country. In modern times, Dr. Hagop Akiskal described a
continuum of manic and depressive symptoms and further defined the
bipolar spectrum. A good discussion of the spectrum is found in
the article cited below [1].
Ronald W. Pies MD
1. http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.lieber.html
To end the drama here I’ll just make my point and let it be. And do take note though Natasha – when someone with 20 years writing experience, a college degree and a book on bipolar after living with Manic Depression for 30 years (female, rapid cycling, early onset at age 19 – I know the hell of depression very well…) offers to write for Healthy Place for basically free don’t insult the person, insult the person’s writing, f’ with the person… or – shockingly – that person is not going to like you much, will get pissed off and probably (like I have) get angry and reply in turn.
Done deal.
My points here are that you need to educate yourself better, before using a public platform to write about ‘Bipolar 2’. I do have major issues with the bipolar spectrum (created to get more people on drugs, which makes a lot of folks very ill and then do not get the proper health care they desperately need… ) and do not think BP-2 is very legit – hypomania is not a severe illness state and you have no clue as to what an actual bipolar person goes through – someone who is actually Manic Depressive – and the hypomania like you even write about is often a result of MEDICATIONS.
Bipolar Disorder (now called BP-1) is a genetic-based severe mental illness. Yes, we all know depression is horrific (I was sickened when I read you were given ECT, it is horrible anyone would suffer to the point of agreeing to damage their brain to supposedly help them) – Major Depressive Disorder is more of what BP-2 is.
The term ‘bipolar depression’ doesn’t make depression any more special, or really even an accurate term – but it does get a ton of people victimized in thinking they have an illness that they don’t, and then pressured to take a ton more medications that make them sicker (you have to admit that is why you had ECT, you were not being treated successfully, if you were you never would have had it, and no one should ever have to have it – we need better treatments, alternative care and access ot those treatments.
And to educate about the Chemical Imbalance Theory (that you think is legit, sorry, it is not) that is simply a very old outdated unproven ‘medical term’ I guess we could say that was used to get folks on meds.
Great, all good, but in the long term these meds are disabling they are addictive and have very serious side effects, even dealth.
Propaganda that you are promoting here (not intentionally, I get that, but it doesn’t make it any better) leads to the continuation of this lie (that some people have imbalances that the meds are “correcting’) and even worse – has led to the massive promotion and targeting of these drugs to children.
Children.
It is sickening. And yes, I will speak out – anywhere the bipolar is being promoted like it is here, written about incorrectly and in a way that leads to others being mistreated and not make well – given care and access to alternative care that can help them.
In a way you have helped me – I should be thanking you – as after that completely innapropriate and rude experience I had in dealing with you about the blogging gig it got me to start speaking out. Got me to start reading more of what you write here, what others write and what is being promoted.
It got me to start my own blog – Bipolar 1 Survivor – that I can share more accurate information with others, research that is incredibly exciting and will help many (even you, if you were open to it but I know many feel they need to be on those meds, which is of course a personal choice, just need to know not medically supported by the literature).
And I will keep fighting for a ban on all Psych Meds for those under the age of 18. Won’t get into it here, but others can read a ton online, just google homicide/SSRIs/suicide/teenagers.
Take care Natasha – if you see me around it will just be to counter act any misinformation. I think I’ve vented enough about dealing with you and being insulted. You should have more respect for others, and especially more kindness towards others who are actually bipolar and have suffered as much, if not more, than you have dealing with depression.
best, Molly
Molly,
You have “expressed yourself” to the detriment of others who are feeling upset and have contacted me to say so — making this an unsafe space which is not the goal around here. Due to your activity, I am banning you for seven days. If you act like this again, I will simply ban you permanently.
– Natasha Tracy
I generally call the more severe days “sick days,” if they are isolated and not part of a longer episode. If I don’t have the energy to do basic self-care, can’t put a coherent sentence together, and have to call my husband to come home early because my thoughts are scaring me, it’s a sick day. Usually there’s also muscle aches and joint pain on those days (caused by the depression).
Maybe that term is minimizing or misleading. I guess I’m just used to it, it’s part of MY “normal.”
Thanks for this blog, it is validating and for me that is enormous. I understand the “down days” verbiage. I’m on meds and have been for a year. They are working and for the most part my moods are stable… but I too will have a “down day” — which to me means a lighter version of the prior-med “I can’t get out of bed and life sucks and I want to run away and I want to die and if you try to bring me flowers I will throw them against the wall” days. Now, a down day is tolerable, but remains a reminder that things could be much worse without meds. Bipolar is a spectrum disorder, so some may struggle with constant suicidal thoughts and some might experience enough mood instability to interfere with work and relationships. For me, suicidal thoughts would be a problem maybe once a year, if unmedicated. However, the BPII anger and irritability caused serious rifts in my family relationships. My children & husband walked on eggshells around me, and after the storm of rage I suffered enormous guilt and depression. I have responsibility to my family to stay medicated, even though some of the side effects are not particularly comfortable — so down days are still in my life, but at least now they are tolerable.
journey upward wrote, in part, to Natasha “Natasha, I hear and understand what you are saying. I felt like you do when my rapid cycling sent me from one extreme to the other constantly–it was potentially lethal.”
Molly wrote that Natasha does not have bipolar disorder, and that she feels sorry for “people like” Natasha. I don’t follow or get what this all means for the forum.
Hi Synergy,
Try not to concern yourself with Molly. She shows up now and then to tell me I don’t have bipolar and to be nasty. It doesn’t mean anything. I don’t have to prove I have her, personal definition of bipolar. No one does.
– Natasha Tracy
Interesting. Thanks, Natasha.
Natasha, I was never nsaty in any way (sorry, can you give a few examples?) but after dealing with you in a professional way and realizing I was dealing with someone who most likely has a personality disorder (has any doctor/therapist every broached that with you?) than someone dealing with a medical conditon like I have for over 30 years I did repsond and speak out.
So sorry but your rudeness to me (give a few example of earlier transactions Natasha to your ‘fans’ here – or I can…) then made me respond in kind, in a professional way, as in someone who actually understands this illness and isn’t going to let someone like you define it or educate others about it.
More soon… and please again, Natasha, can you elaborate more on your claims above… or are you simply skilled in not dealing with the reality of your actions but in then projecting them ( “I’m being persecuted” ) onto others?
I’m waiting. Thanks.
Synergy educate yourself is the main issue. Burple is promoting serious depression, mood issues (blood sugar, allergies, sensitivites) to her pet project ‘bipolar depresion’ at that is what she was manipulated into processing for her symptoms. And it’s fucked, as there is NO SUCH THING AS BIPOLAR DEPRESSION.
Depression (burple can give you some pointers on that) is nothing new – but the term “Bipolar Depression” was invented arround the time burple had what is VERY common – a crisis of depression, low mood, irratability, dfficulty with relationships, etc..
Have Natasha speak about that – with honesty. Have her talk about violations from sexuaal assault — NATASHA have you ever been violated, sexually or other? Are you capable of sharing this or do you hide behind some public personal of “bipolrar?”
Figure it out, as there are those of us – who actually do have a diagnosis of Biplolar now labeled Bipolar 1 Disorder who will speak out. For the benefir ot everyone.
Molly, argumentation is not my thing. . I don’t want to hear anything more from you.
My issue with your writings is you are misrepresting the illness Manic Depression – using the term bipolar as you were manipulated into by Big Pharma and put on antipsychotic meds (mood stabilizers that will mellew and help anyone in physical/emoitional distress for a time, but do NOT diganose bipolar – BP-2 is a phony category, not bipolar disorder) .
And you keep writing as if you are ‘explaining this illlness’ to the world which you do not even have.
Major Depressive Disorder is NOT bipolar disorder i.e. Manic Depression. I’ve read NOTHING of your writings or history that say you are actually bipolar i.e. Manic Depressive, now called BP-1.
But you seem clearly to suffer from severe, chronic and intermittent depression – that’s Major Depressive Disorder or other illness.
So – take note – you do NOT represent bipolar disorder. And most of your mood swings, etc. are most likely from your inability to understand the chemical imbalance theory and being subjected to harmful toxic medications you think you need to take.
Then think others should.
Sorry, but that is simple wrong. And I am sorry for your suffering, major depresion is awful as anyone with actual bipolr (Manic Depression) will agree with – but MDD is NOT bipolar disorder.
BP-2 which is primarily depression is just that – with the phone ‘bipolar depression’ added in when they needed to get away from all the bad pubicity (due to actual research you are not able to understand obviously) and market the new antipsychotics (which you’ve shared from your history is exactly what you were put on then declared ‘BP-2’.
Sorry Natasha, but you need ot realize there are many who do not want this BS and ignorance being promoted online.
Whoa! Molly, seriously? I’m not entirely sure how you would even begin to think it’s ok to question someone else’s diagnosis and even more than that to actually bequeath a diagnosis to that person without ever having met them!
You’re right, you should be sorry! It’s fine to have a different opinion than that of others, but there’s absolutely no call for being so incredibly sweeping and condescending with your judgments! I’m quite sure that Natasha is capable of finding an appropriate medical support system that suits her. Just as you are free to shun that same medical system.
If you don’t think that her opinions are at all representative, then why do you follow this blog? I’ve been shocked and amazed to discover Natasha describing something using nearly the same words I would use. I find this to be a wonderful resource to show to people to help them understand some aspects of what I go through. Not everything Natasha says lines up with the way I experience things, but a stunning amount does. I suppose that means you’d like to tell me that my Bipolar 1 diagnosis is a sham too?
Leapfroggie I am not diagnosing anyone or anything – only standing up for all those who actually HAVE bipolar and want to understand the illness PLUS those who experience severe, intermittent and chronic depression – which is AWFUL, but is NOT bioplar disorder.
The whole bipolar spectrum was created to market antipsychotic medications (Google “Ronald Pies, M.D.) – and to make a new category for depressives that would warrant prescribing the meds too plus many more. It is sickening what has gone on and it needs to be spoken out against so as to not victimize more people, spread more misinformation and prevent legitimate research and new treatment options.
So, YES, I will speak out – and I have never met Natash, don’t really care to after some really incredibly rude interactions with her dealing with some stupid Healthy Place contributer gig. Who cares about that -I certainly don’t at this point but I did get an idea of the person I was dealing with and as someone who actually has BP and suffered much like many others I DO care about the illness, the future of research into the illness and to fighiting those ombating the lies – like are spouted here due to basic ignorance – of the Big Pharma agenda which prompted the whole phony ‘bipolar spectrum’ bullshit in the first place.
Those who suffer from depression, chronic, persistent, intermeitent or whatever should be pissed as well that it is being misrepresented by those who want to feel more special putting the work ‘bipolar’ in front of it, have been misled by negligent physicians or whatever but are not being helped – just further victimized by Big Pharma and the phony chemical imbalnace theory.
Yes, I do feel sorry for someone like Natasha but I will NOT be silent about someone trying to publixize and educate about Manic Depression who does not even have the illness – in support of all those who do such as myself, thousances of others dead and alive.
That has nothing to do with you, or anyone else, whatever diagnoses you have. I hope you are well.
Best, Molly
Is it true that Natasha does not have bipolar disorder? How do you know this, Molly? I thought this was a real forum, for people with bipolar disorder, and written/hosted by a person (Natasha) who I thought was a person with bipolar. I agree with so many of the articles she’s written here. But, nothing about us, without us!
Do you know of a forum with these specs? I am not anti-psychiatry, and am not interested in forums which support this type of position.
I am a member of the Bipolar forum at Psych Forums. This is what they say and provide for anti-psychiatry advocates: “The Bipolar Forum is not the place for these discussions. Please post in the Anti-Psych Forum. Posts and threads in the Bipolar Forum which are Anti-Psych in nature may be moved without warning. Repeat offenders may have measures taken against them.”
Natasha, I hear and understand what you are saying. I felt like you do when my rapid cycling sent me from one extreme to the other constantly–it was potentially lethal. But now I have to agree with Paul. My meds now have me in a place where I no longer experience extremes and feel pretty normal but I will sometimes experience a slight depression–wanting to isolate, no motivation, fatigued, feeling somewhat hopeless but still able to function reasonably well. Compared to the hell I used to go through, this “blip” on my mood chart is just a “down day” to me.
Excellent description of my experience. I would maybe throw in the words “desperation” and “agony” somewhere as well.
Yep my down days are exactly like yours, Natasha. One day I can be near-normal (as far as mood) and the next I can be crying all day, my husband taking FMLA to help me keep from doing something permanent. I do say I have “down” days to lighten up the fact that I do have suicidal days, no one wants to hear reality, unfortunately. It’s too bad bipolar disorder is still so misunderstood.
I can say i have “down days” and yes i have had BP diagnosis for years. its not that mine isn’t so “bad” or i don’t know how much suffering ppl have who has “real BP ” because it sounds like someone who has “real BP ” cant have “just”down days, it’s always more severe “epic suffering”. My down days are simply due rapid cycling , combined with inability to tolerate full therapeutic doses of pretty much anything. ( ive been trying different types, different doses and different combinations for maybe 6 years). so now sometimes i have “down days” bad enough to know that im about to have an episode, but not bad enough to develop to a full blown one thanks to meds. so i am mildly depressed for a day or two, i can up my dose for couple of days if it looks like it doesn’t go past and potentially get worse, or it goes past by itself, because i have my regular medications, just not so high doses that it can completely stabilize my moods.
Dear Hanna, our story is very interesting to me. Yes, “epic suffering” is it, all right. I have not had any epic suffering since starting meds about 18 years ago. As for completely stablizing, I wonder what that means to you. I, too, have occasional “down days,” but at this time, they are mostly just exhaustion — I sometimes/usually do way too much — fun and business stuff — such as appointments. Occasionally, I fly into a mild, short lived rage — like when I get into some company’s phone loop or otherwise have no way to contact a company when I need to understand something. Google is the perfect example of an inaccessible company!!! And of course there are others just as unavailable. Best Buy is close….I’m not a vengeful person — but I have taken revenge at some companies by going to a company that has good customer service. Changed my bank, for example. I take fairly low meds, too. I’m wondering about what fully stable means at all — to me or to you or to a professional — and what “stable” means for people who do not have mood disorders?? There have been times in the past where I felt “totally level,” but after a while I started feeling (mildly) like a zombie, and lowered my meds dosages.
i think “fully stabilized” for me is more like not having these episodes so often, or not having them at all for awhile. i have good days and low days, but most of the time i have one or another episode, just so mild that they aren’t big of an issue. Dunno , i guess its hard to know what is to feel “normal” , but like today, no focus, talking too much and felt like laughing at everything, just an extra good mood, but yesterday, really irritated, no patience at all, grumpy and snappy, day before, pretty much depressed and feeling like wanting to cry all the time. I am fully functioning, but i feel like meds just take the edge away, at least it is enough and this combination is good. and i know what you mean, it is our story and a personal story, same thing but from the different point of view ie. life situation, severity etc etc. My thing sounds much like yours, and im so happy that i have a chance to be without those suffering times, if i get one of those days when i feel like i want to rip my skin off and scream because i feel so bad, at least i know its going past soon thanks to my meds, also sometimes i feel like my rapid cycling is some kind of blessing, im in a lucky situation not having to tolerate those horror days for long, even cycling is sometimes exhausting.
Hanna, another insightful comment from you. Thanks for this. Yeah,I know what you mean about maybe rapid cycling is better than the long stretches of mania or depression. For me right now, the meds work very well. Who knows when they will dwindle down again, though, so that I’d need to either tweak them (again!) or change them (again!)
Hanna, I mistyped one word in the first sentence — should have read “your” story; not “our” story, but of course it IS our story, both of us!
“down days”….
Ya do know that there is not 1 actual form of the disorder any longer, right?
There are actually multiple versions of Bipolar ranging from having just depression but family members who have Bipolar up to the Bipolar I and well, everything in between (including dysthymia and cyclothymia).
The meds mean nothing any longer because anti-depressants are prescribed to so many… anti-psychotics are often off labeled & added to clinical depressants to boost anti-depressants and well, to insomniacs for sleep… mood stabilizers are actually anti-convulsants… only Lithium is the true Bipolar med still
thing is: Bipolar to one is not the same to all and all Bipolar is not the same to all people who are diagnosed with it… it does not invalidate those who truly have it
my family does not even see me as “the Bipolar” that I was when diagnosed in 2006 after so many years of mis-diagnosis. Why? because I no longer “preach it”, explain it, describe it or insist on it being front and center on everything. I also do not push it out front and center to employers or fellow employees and only a very few even know of it – of me.
Does this mean that I do not struggle and suffer with it? ABSOLUTELY NOT..
but I don’t carry it around on my shoulder or paste it on my forehead any longer. It is my illness that I deal with and most, I have found, do not want to hear it – see it – have to deal with me dealing with it. I have literally lost employment because of it, lost promotions due to it… due to people knowing it, of me.
So, as much as is possible – I keep it and I’ve gotten quite good at it.
I have voices within my head, I have intrusive thoughts that I so do dread and often at random moments, I want dearly to be dead. My voices and thoughts and delusions galore.. abhor my ability to continue doing more. I rock myself to sleep crying and wailing in the night and in the daytime, I work hard to live and fight.
I have manias and depressions, mixed episodes and frightening episodes and many therapists and a few psychiatrists have all scratched their heads in wonder over the fact that I am still putting one foot in front of the other and not laying down and laying out.
I get periods of paranoia, hallucinations and delusional thinking so foul. I scream with rage on the inside, while trying to smile and keep peace on the outside. I have literally rocked myself within a chair or bench, grasping ahold of something, to keep from acting on the impulse to kill myself at times.
I actually have moments that I literally feel as if I am insane and get, quite often, where I do not literally trust a thought within my head… seriously, that is F’d up when you are so distrustful of the thoughts within your mind. It’s like turning your mind inside out and staring at it and questioning it in detail.
Yet… i have “down days” and I have “up days”… and let me say, the “mixer” days are absolutely the worst and are hell. When someone asks “what is wrong with you?” I note “I’m just having a down day” when I could very well have thoughts and/or the voices within telling me to die you filthy bitch die.
It is my Bipolar and no one else, I’ve found thus far, wants to share any of it or take any of it. Hell, I had one therapist raise her voice once years back and told me to quit “ramming it down everyone’s throat”.
So.. I have “down days” and I have “up days”.
Dear Tabby, The story of yourself that you relate is, in the true meaning but no trendy trite meaning , pathetic. The greek root is “pathos: to suffer.” [Definition: True meaning: causing or evoking pity, sympathetic sadness, sorrow, etc.;affecting or moving the feelings.; pertaining to or caused by the feelings. There’s a kitchy polluted meaning of the word, so pay no attention to that — another example to such trivializing would be the triteness of the word “awesome” these days, plus current weakening of other powerful words – is not what I feel for you, so pay no attention: to trivial words.
That said, yes, it’s pathos for you that I’m moved by in your story. I admire your bravery in the face of such varied and terrible expereinces and “attacks” of your bipolar on your daily activities. Some of what you descibe used to apply to me, in fact, for 50 years till I got my dx at age 64 or 56. The sobbing, wailing, rages, wishing I were dead. But fortunately for my case, the good therapy and meds have 99% cured all that. Not only that, my arts — playing music, drawing — have flourished. I used to get upset with my self over “mistakes” in my music playing, but now I enjoy the challenge and work out the musical and technical problems. Etc. Gosh, I wish I’d had more experience with what you describe. I just want to say , I suppose, that life is very hard.
I hear what you’re saying Natasha and agree with you to an extent. I know when I’m sometimes talking to well-meaning people who don’t know much about bipolar disorder they’ll say something like “So you have up days and down days?”. Well, no. I have days/weeks where I’m flying so high that I can’t imagine any sorrow until I fly just a bit too high and come crashing back down to weeks/months in a place that’s much darker than I can ever believe.
For me, personally, I use down days to describe that exhaustion you were talking about in your last post. I’m not necessarily depressed, but I’m definitely not at my best. I might even say something to a loved one like “Well, I’ve got that party on Sunday, so for sure Monday and maybe even Tuesday will be some down days for me”. I know in advance that it’s really likely I will need those days to recuperate, so don’t count on me for any heavy/extra responsibilities those days.
Also, like Paul, I have some blah days that in and of themselves are not enough to be depression, but also are something I want to be paying attention to. Too many down days like that in a row and I know I need to check meds/sleep/stress because I’m on my way to a more hellish place.
I think Natasha was making a plea for many of us who have a flavor of this illness more like hers.The public,including health care providers have many misconceptions about suffering daily with this and one of them is that it isn’t so bad ( look at all the successful/famous people who have it after all). I don’t think,and it wasn’t my reading,that she was saying someone can’t characterize their days as they see fit .But if to get to a down day it requires 3 mood stabilizers people need to start to hear that.Some of us just can’t seem to get to it at all.They need to start hearing the reality.
Right on, Boris loves me. You wrote: “These people are, typically, those who are doing well but still have these things called “down days.” But what is a “down day?” What are these people talking about?” I had dear friend before my dx. She told me one time that she always had thought that people who claimed depression were exaggerating. THEN she, herself, got serious clinical depression. She told me, “I really knew, then, what people go through!” She took Prozac and got okay then. Then she stopped the Prozac. . I lost touch with her, so don’t know if she ever got depression except that one time. She was in her 50s when it happened.
Hi Natasha, I can relate to what you are saying. Ever since I was a teen and perhaps even before that, I have seen mostly dark, down days. The down days come in huge blocks, weeks and sometimes months. But I try to look at the bright side which is not easy to do, especially when you are down in the dumps. The bright side of bipolar disorder is that the good days, though far and few in between are really good! Why is it so hard then to look on the bright side, especially when you are down in the dumps? It’s because when you are down in the dumps you can’t see clearly. The only thing I am absolutely sure of when I am down in the dumps is that I am a loser and if I ever get to start thinking otherwise it is because am being delusional. It’s like there are 2 versions of me. The pessimist and the optimist. Unfortunately, I cannot trust the optimist. Can you guess which version of me is writing?
Hello,\ David, you wrote, “The only thing I am absolutely sure of when I am down in the dumps is that I am a loser and if I ever get to start thinking otherwise it is because am being delusional. It’s like there are 2 versions of me. The pessimist and the optimist. Unfortunately, I cannot trust the optimist. Can you guess which version of me is writing?” Yes, this all sounds familiar. For me, when I am real depressed, i have NO MEMORY of the good days,and feel like the depression is permanent. And vice versa — when I have good days I think “The depression is gone! It will never come back!” Here’s how I discover reality of my situation — I have years of notebooks filled with ruminations and descriptions of how I felt at the moment. I also have a lot of downer poetry I have written, but a few that are positive about fun. Also there are notebooks about various relationships, good and mostly bad ones, and lists of “News and Goods.” I try to focus on the News and Goods,” writing lists of these tings in the News and Goods notebooks. but often forget to do that. I also have sort of scrapbook notebooks filled with loving greeting card s I’ve received, as well as positive new articles and stuff like that. I either look at these things sometimes, or I just remember that they are there in my bookcases.
Hi Natasha, Paul and EDDE. My down days sound a lot like Paul describes about his down days. Natasha, the thing is, some of us are what’s known as “rapid cycling.” The official description of rapid cycling from webmd is: “Rapid cycling is a pattern of frequent, distinct episodes in bipolar disorder. In rapid cycling, a person with the disorder experiences four or more episodes of mania or depression in one year.” Before I got meds I rapid cycled all day, almost every day. I had very few days each month when I did not have severe depression.l On therapist told me that my moods went up and down faster than anyone she had ever seen. I would be totally down — “killer days,” when I could not work, mostly slept and cried. Other days I was hypomanic, with big ideas, plans and spending sprees for equipment for starting a new business. I had psychotherapy weekly, or twice a week if I was in severe crisis. For year I did that; now I have learned so much from my therapist/s that I only go to see him when I am really upset — maybe every 2-3 months usually for for a single session. I believed that my hypomania, when I felt so good, were “the real me.” But when I started Paxil for the first time, when it kicked in, I was amazed — I thought to myself, THIS is the way everyone else feels ALL THE TIME! Paxil quit working as some others do/did, and I would have to start a new med or combination. Several times I have gone for many months or several years before a med regime quit. For the past several weeks, I’ve been fine, but I had to slow down and drop some of my busyness and get more rest. Rest is vital.
Your opinion is, as always, valid and welcome, Natasha. But if I am to be honest in describing my emotional state, I want the freedom to be open to my family and my psychiatrist. I am on three different mood stabilisers; my “blips” at the moment really are just blips. That could change at any moment (as it has numerous times in the past couple of years, because three mood stabilisers are often just not enough) but my ups and downs are no comparison to the crazy extremes I have experienced before. I had a few “down” days recently; that is exactly what they were. No motivation, no appetite, anti-social. That’s not depression, especially when it’s so brief and with no mania afterward. I should be able to call a spade a spade.
Once again I am completely in agreement with your take on this concept. I suppose that before I owned the BPD diagnosis, I thought I had better days (usually in mania) and down days (isolating and immobilizing) and thought I was “normal” because everyone seems to speak in these terms. BPD is not normal, it is painful.