Is there really a question as to when to give in and let someone commit suicide? According to some commenters and a recent email I received, there sure is.
This morning, I received an email saying that I was “promoting torture” by telling people not to commit suicide. According to the emailer:
I’m not clear on why this blog makes people feel that ending one’s suffering is not an option…and in fact is a wrong thing to do….?
Don’t we all have choices? If we’ve done all we can and life is absolute hell, then why convince people to continue to live such lives?!
So the question is, is there really a time when you should give in and just let someone commit suicide?
Being Suicidal
I’ve been suicidal a greater amount of my life than I would ever want to admit to or talk about. I get wanting to die. I get it like the fact that I get that we breathe oxygen. I get the pain that’s involved in depression, bipolar and mental illness and I get the desire to want to escape that pain in any way possible. And I get that the only way it seems possible to escape that pain is through suicide. I totally get this.
But I am not always suicidal.
Give In and “Let” Someone Commit Suicide?
Ay, there’s the rub. I’m not always suicidal. People with mental illness are not always suicidal. Yes, sometimes depression is protracted and, yes, sometimes the feelings of suicidality last for very long periods of time. And sometimes those depressed, suicidal feelings seem like they will last forever. Yes, that is absolutely true.
But it is also true that people get better from mental illness every day with treatment. It is even true that people like me, people who have been acutely ill for years get better with treatment. It is true that even after begging for my death for extremely long periods of time, I still have times when I’m thankful not to be dead. There are times when I’m glad I didn’t commit suicide.
And that’s the thing. People who are suicidal because of mental illness can get better with treatment. There is always hope. As long as there is treatment available (and there is always treatment available, somewhere, somehow) then there is always hope. You, honestly, might feel suicidal until you get to your 20th medication change. I would hate for that to be true for you but it could happen. But then that 20th medication change happens and you do get better.
This is why there is no time when it’s appropriate to just give in and let someone commit suicide. There is no time when there is no hope. There is no time when it’s okay to give up when someone asks you to let them die.
Because no matter how dark it looks, no matter how fucked up your life is, no matter what you’ve done to create your problems, there is a “through” and there is an “other side.” There will be another sunrise. There will be another friend. There will be another kind word or gesture. There will be another smile. There will be another pint of Ben and Jerry’s. There will be another reason to be alive.
I’ll Never “Give In” and Let Someone Commit Suicide
And that is why I will never give in and simply say, “Okay, commit suicide then.” I’ll never say it. Because I’m glad I’m not dead and one day you will be, too. It might not be tomorrow. But one day, maybe years from now, you will be able to look back on your life and be glad you didn’t commit suicide today, because of all the amazing tomorrows you have left to go.
Does pain hurt? Yes. Does pain make like unbearable? Yes, it does. Does it seem like suicide is the only way out? Sometimes. But is pain something we can survive? Yes, absolutely, no matter how infinitely unfair the pain might be.
Sometimes life is torture, but it won’t always be that way, so hang on until it changes because nothing stays the same in life, not even wanting to commit suicide.
[As a quick addendum, I do not consider suicide because of mental illness the same thing as assisted suicide at the end stages of an illness. At the end stages of an illness your future is certain, foretold and is guaranteed to worsen until death. This can never be said of mental illness.]
Go up to a homeless person on the street and ask them if they’re happy with their situation. Most will probably say no. Then, after you’ve told them about how all the millionaires out there have multiple houses, dozens of cars, a private yacht or two, a private jet, and a bank account that never drops below seven figures, ask them if they feel any better. If you think that homeless person is going to jump up and announce, “Wow, you’re right! My life is amazing!”, you’re the one with the defective brain.
That’s how it feels, after years and years of ineffective treatment, to be constantly told how *other* people have managed to beat their mental illnesses and how my death will affect X number of people. Good for the author of this piece and everyone else here who managed to win their battles, but guess what? It does absolutely nothing to alleviate the torment I go through on a daily basis.
Interesting, but why do you assume suicidal people are depressed or mentally ill? What if ones desire for an end to life is not based on sadness or hopelessness, but something else entirely, logic. If you can be reasonably assured your life will not improve and you are not enjoying your existence isn’t suicide a reasonable solution? Life eventually ends and death is terrifying to some, but many have little to look forward to on Earth.
@Paul Winkler First, thanks for being courteous in your comment. Second, congratulations on getting to a place in your life where you’re feeling safer and more hopeful.
I want to address one thing in particular you wrote about. You said that assisted dying should have no place in a conversation about personal rights in an environment besieged by housing (and related financial) insecurity. While I agree politics muddy this particular instance of self autonomy, in the absence of a viable and working housing security policy, what are you going to offer people who are jobless, perhaps disabled but for whatever reasons NOT supported by their governments or other disability programs, and who are suffering the physical pains and indignations of being homeless–including remarkably higher crime victimhood stats? I agree these people, whom I’m about to join, are at elevated risk of being marginalized or ignored by the political machinery and, therefore, targeted for elimination. But what is anyone offering them/us as an alternative? The situation in large US cities like San Francisco and New York and Seattle… is abysmal. People are living in the streets–in the sewers–like, well, rats. And no one is doing anything about it. Because these human beings aren’t profitable to anyone.
So I ask again, if we refuse to allow people like this (whom I am joining in just a few weeks) the prerogative to choose to die instead of experiencing the horror of homelessness, often associated with grave risks of sexual and other kinds of violence, then what are we offering them (us) as an alternative? I think it’s cruel of our culture on the one hand to refuse to allow people to choose to leave while on the other hand not to offer them solutions–even just abandoning them in their suffering.
This is an old blog so I don’t know whether anyone is reading the comments. But the timing at the moment is interesting. Natasha ends with the clarification that she doesn’t believe in assisted dying for those with a mental illness. Yesterday, the Province of Québec suspended part of their Right-to-Die legislation, the part referring to mental illness. The previous commenter, AB, appears to feel the right to die should include those with mental illness, at least potentially.
Let’s back up. When I first joined online mental health support groups in the 1990’s, it was a common rule that no member criticise or comment upon another member’s cache of suicide paraphernalia. That was considered their “safety net”. Escape by suicide was widely accepted. There are probably sites on the dark web where this still exists, but it doesn’t seem to be mainstream anymore.
I don’t know where I stand. Following an 8-month depression I attempted suicide once but I’m now glad I failed. Last year I nearly repeated the scenario. If I came upon a person attempting suicide I would attempt to save them. But talking with my peers back in the 90’s, I also learned to respect their views. Just because I found hope, doesn’t necessarily mean everyone else will.
Another point: In mental hospitals, I have met people who have tried dozens of medications (I have too), trans-cranial magnetic stimulation, Electro convulsive Therapy, and the odd psychotherapy (psychological therapy is hard to access in Canada.) And other sorts of mental soothing such as art, music, exercise, and meditation. And they’re still unable to see the light at the end of the tunnel. So I would like to say that help is NOT always available. It may be MORE available if you have money and live in a large centre, but that doesn’t apply to everyone. There are also treatments such as Deep Brain Stimulation and Vagus Nerve Stimulation; these have been done here, but they were part of a study and are no longer available in this country.
In conclusion, I’d say my opinion probably depends on whether or not I myself am sick.Otherwise there are are a lot of pros and cons.I am strongly AGAINST offering assisted dying to people who are living with food or housing insecurity. That is a purely political issue and should not be part of a discussion like this.
This! Thank you!
Suicide is obviously a very sensitive subject. It’s just about the only subject I’ve encountered which, when discussed from an individual’s own perspective in a legal way–not threatening others and not breaking any laws–is regularly censored. The irony is that the suicidal individual is advised to talk to people about their feelings. But on doing so, others will often silence him or her. This is especially so if the comments, no matter how respectful and self-reflective, are done in any media others might come upon (print, online…). So it’s no wonder many suicidals just stop talking about it. They also may not feel inclined to discuss their feelings with so-called professionals who dismiss their experiences and reasoning as “wrong” and indicative of sickness (a pathology the psychiatric world continues largely not to provide robust physiological evidence of).
I hope this blog’s author won’t mind a dissenting opinion. She writes that suicidal people are not always suicidal. I think, with respect, this observation is simplistic. Most severely suicidal people will probably admit that there are moments when they are not suicidal–or rather, moments when they’re distracted enough from their pain that they are not actively thinking of how to end their lives. It doesn’t follow that they would, therefore, prefer to remain alive. I think most of us can think of circumstances that are not constant but which are frequent enough and negative enough that we would do anything to avoid them–even if that meant not experiencing future joys.
I also don’t think that what some of us are willing to abide should mean others ought to be willing to abide the same things. We cannot all lift the same amount of mass or run the same distances … or endure the same life challenges.
Little else about suicide, and our culture’s response to it, befuddles me more than the bewilderingly active censorship nearly everywhere to silence the many people who’ve sought or who are in therapy–often for years or decades–and for whom therapy hasn’t helped. It’s as if the professional community thinks, despite their publications of many public service announcements to the contrary, that merely talking about suicide is contagious. I am certainly in favor of helping anyone who wants it. But help frighteningly often stops being “help” when it is forced.
Our culture still doesn’t understand most of what makes up the human mind, although many seem utterly confident of what diseased thinking is. Yet we have plentiful data about the factors that contribute to both depression and suicide risk–things like chronic unemployment, homelessness, ongoing social isolation, extreme poverty… I recognize it’s difficult to solve these social problems, but so long as some people are stuck experiencing them for most or all of their lifetimes, together with other exacerbating factors like unremitting exposure to pollution, ongoing violence, lack of access to a protective and just legal system… it strikes me as bordering on cruel to insist they remain suffering the circumstances we are powerless to eliminate while, instead, trying to learn how to change their own thoughts (cognitive behavioral therapy…) or deal with painful emotions (a central goal of dialectical behavioral therapy).
I imagine if we outlawed other instances of societally volatile personal choice–like accessing legal abortion–on the grounds that we personally considered making these choices but then did not and we are glad we did not today, very many people would be deprived of the freedom to decide what is best for them even if this starkly conflicts with others’ values. And, likely, these people would NOT feel in the future as we do.
I applaud this blog’s owner for feeling much better about her own life. I also applaud her for caring about others. Yet, no philosophy or religion has ever succeeded indefinitely in coercing others to act in accordance with a philosophy they don’t agree with. People will eventually do what they think is best for them, so long as they’re able to. So unless psychiatry can demonstrate that suicide RESULTS from (not is associated with) pathological neurology, so that we could be confident that it is not chronically painful life events that are responsible for altered mental states and thoughts about one’s life’s value (to the life owner), there will always be suicidal people. It’s very telling that during some of the most vigorous anti-suicide campaigning in the US (over the past several years), year after year suicide rates have continued to climb. This despite the increased surveillance among the various levels of public health.
Censoring people from talking about why they’re suicidal or about sharing their own experiences with the mental health system isn’t going to decrease suicide rates. Likely, it will have the opposite effect. If we want far fewer people to commit suicide (and I think nearly all of us do), then instead of blaming the suicidal and heaping more tasks on their shoulders, the rest of us ought to make our society into the sort of place far more people want to stay alive to keep experiencing.
AB, I applaud you for addressing so many anal ideologies in one effective post.
BRAVO. Screamibg at people who are already suffering with subtle, yet insulting narratives, while attempting to help often does the opposite.
It fails to address the fact that often the mention of “hope” is more of a detested expletive than an accepted motivator, and just because we are alive does not mean we are happy about it, ever will be happy about it, that things will ever “get better” -and no, due to ONE of my health issues, along with reactions to almost all medications,
I WILL NEVER be able to eat a pint of ice cream again. Thanks for the unwanted reminder, (I get it’s not about ME).
Additionally, I’m battling several forms if pain, and to add insult to injury, a well meaning psychologist actually told me to,
Practice mindfulness.”
Considering the fact that much of the physical agony is literally in my head, there are no words to do justice to a response so lacking in insight.
His next sentence made me wonder if I was being threatened for being overwhelming/overwhelmed, or perhaps because he was not accustomed to tears AND despair:
“Do you think these sessions are helping you?”
MIND YOU, THIS IS SESSION #4.
Nothing like feeling you’re a waste of someone’s time on top of the oxygen you’re undeservedly usurping.
I don’t even know how to continue, so I guess I’ll close here.
WTF?
Chris, I’m sorry it’s taken so long to get a notification of your reply to my comment. Or that my old reply seems not to have successfully posted. I agree with everything you’ve shared. And I’m especially sorry for your continued suffering. You’re right that many in the mental health system who do NOT respond as professionals expect are threatened–sometimes subtly, other times overtly. Or professionals respond in ways that only exacerbate suffers’ pain. These kinds of outcomes are so mind-boggling, so frightening (especially after you’ve experienced these things) that to keep surviving (irony) you can feel you must both avoid “professional mental health” and withdraw from discussions about general mental health (since the vast majority seem to have bought into modern psychology’s models of right-and-wrong and mental health causation–and so are deaf to our counterarguments).
I wish I could be hopeful, but I don’t think we are substantially closer to being entitled to effective self-ownership. Consequently, many of us must do the hard, hard work of finding out what’s likely to lead to relief for us and then struggling to bring this to fruition. Here’s to the best for you, Chris.
I think your article, though well meaning, is actually irresponsible and cruel. To lightly toss off the comment that depression is almost always treatable and therefore not a truly permanent state, misstates the torturous, excruciating pain that people with depression live with every single minute of every single day all of their lives. Effective treatment for depression is almost impossible to find, rarely covered by insurance and most often preventatively expensive. Competent mental health care is simply not an option for most Americans. Even if a depressed person has money to spend, most medical doctors, even psychiatrists, don’t have the patience or the training to effectively treat a patient with depression. So to say to your readers that most people who attempt suicide are living with depression and depression is almost always treatable is to abandon your readership and blame your readers for their own pain, while making yourself feel better by offering happy platitudes that actually help no one. Writing that depression will change and lift on its own and therefore all depressed patents need to do is wait until they just don’t feel bad anymore is equally absurd and totally unhelpful.
I don’t mean to insult your work, though you are better off writing nothing than writing the same unhelpful happy-fluff that most “experts” put out into the world. Using your own experience with vacillating depression as your basis for knowing how it goes for others who live with crippling depression every day, all the time, and forever is self-absorbed and insulting. Furthermore, categorizing the very real observations made by people who live with the pain and abject suffering of chronic depression as “faulty” reinforces the discrimination and minimization that people living with depression are forced to face in the medical community already. Your definition of the disease relies almost exclusively on minimizing the experience of the people you claim to want to help.
If you have real words of advice for actual solutions, you should write about them. If you are simply another mental health bigot sidestepping any actual recognition of the problem with the kind of insulting fluff contained here, you should not.
Well said Debbie. I’ve seen numerous therapists, I’ve tried numerous meds, I’ve read all the self help books out there, I’ve attempted CBT; I have good physical health, I am lucid, and by others’ standards I have everything to live for. I simply don’t want to live any more. The times that I am distracted from my suicidal thoughts are few and far between, although I do enjoy them. I know what the source of my suicidal thoughts is (e.g. personal tragedy for which I am fully responsible), and I am tired of hearing about how I need to forgive myself for my mistakes, or how changing my distorted thinking is the solution, or how a rainbow of hope could be just around the corner. I’m an older adult, with a loving family, and while they are very supportive, and I try to convince myself that suicide is not an option because of them, I can’t. I am not interested in living in this self-inflicted hell another day. The word torture is appropriate. Every day is absolute torture. I don’t see the light at the end of this tunnel, and I am not interested in seeing the light. I tried. I want out. The only thing keeping me from acting on my suicidal ideation is fear. I fear the physical pain. I fear not being successful at my attempt. I fear for my wife having to identify my disfigured body. I know this is not logical or rational from the perspective of others. This is my reality. I am convinced that time, exercise, CBT, meds, therapy, etc, are not the solution (ok, all do-gooders, please resist the urge to say “suicide it a permanent solution to a temporary problem” – these platitudes do not help). I appreciate everyone’s efforts to help me, but it’s not working. I think many professionals disapprove of medical assistance in dying for those suffering from mental illness simply because they see it as some sort of admission to their own professional failing. It isn’t. I am old enough to be responsible for my thoughts, and for my recovery, or lack thereof. My apologies to anyone who is offending by my opinion. I encourage everyone who is suffering from depression to seek help. Everyone’s situation is different. I pray that some day permanent relief will be available to those who are competent, and suffering. In my opinion, it is inhumane not to recognize this suffering, and to not provide a means/process of last resort to end this suffering.
@Anonymous Sufferer of Chronic Depression — One of the best comments on self determination I’ve ever read. Not everything is fixable. And there are people who’ve tried and who exhibit lucidity, can think and reason clearly about their life circumstances and what they want. Yet can decide they don’t want to be here anymore. It’s both frightening and depressing that society refuses to acknowledge this.
I needed this today. I came here under the search “I wish my family would let me die” 27 years and the dark days out number the light but that little glimmer was enough to make it through another day
Hi Kittensocks (great name),
I’m so glad I could help. I know there are days when I need these sorts of things, too.
– Natasha Tracy
I think there is a point at which it’s no longer ethical to ask someone to continue fighting.
I spent 8 long, miserable years going through different medications before I found the right combination. Finally, a gene test showed that most of the meds I’d been on were wrong for my gene type and were making me worse. All the times I was suicidal, it was because it seemed no matter how many meds I tried, they didn’t work. I didn’t want to try anymore. Some doctors said they’d tried me on everything they could. I was told to lower my expectations. I was told I would never work again. I was a financial burden to my struggling parents. I would cut myself. I wanted to kill myself, but I loved my parents too much to do it to them. Choosing to stay alive took every ounce of strength I had. I only planned to stay on earth here as long as my parents were alive, so I wouldn’t have to hurt them. Both my aunt and grandfather committed suicide – I couldn’t let my mom lose a daughter too, but I didn’t want to stay here. I couldn’t work because of my emotional instability, panic attacks, and inability to concentrate, plus my insomnia was so bad I’d go 2 and 3 days without being able to sleep. My doctors wouldn’t prescribe me anything for sleep because they knew I’d probably use it to kill myself with.
I never left my room. Light hurt my eyes. Noise hurt my ears, and sometimes I had to put in earplugs just to block out normal, everyday noise. I couldn’t talk on the phone because it made my head hurt. I wouldn’t answer phone calls – I had a phone phobia. I didn’t watch TV or listen to music because it was too much stimulation and would give me a migraine. The meds I was on gave me migraines and nausea all day.
Then the drug Latuda came out. I couldn’t afford it. I’d spent over a year appealing a disability case and didn’t have insurance, plus I couldn’t work. I was going to a charity clinic and only being prescribed the cheapest meds there were, because it was all I could afford. I was told over and over there was nothing else the doctors could try me on that I hadn’t already tried. One day I was assigned a new doctor. She told me the company that makes Latuda has a patient assistance program, and she helped me to get approved for the program so I could get the medication free.
I started the Latuda. The panic attacks completely stopped. Within a week, I stopped cutting myself and pulling my hair out. I started actually leaving my room and wanting to be around other people. Two months later I had a job – I hadn’t worked in 5 years. I feel like I’m back from the dead. The normal life I had long since given up on ever being able to live – I’m living it every day. The people at my job think I’m normal. If I told them how messed up I used to be, they probably wouldn’t believe it.
Never give up. Even if you’ve tried everything, they’re coming out with new meds all the time. They could come out with something new tomorrow, and it might be the thing to make you glad you stuck around. There’s always hope.
I’ve had suicidal thoughts for the past six or seven years. I’m 22, so that’s a fair proportion of my life. I used to think that I could go on as long as I found something to distract me, but I’m just so tired. I don’t see this going away, and the thought of spending the next 40 years feeling like this – well, that pretty much does it. I don’t want to. I know that I probably could, and I think I’m in position where, if I’m lucky, I’ll manage to do something useful along the way – but I don’t want to. I’m going around explaining why life is an untenable state to everyone whom I think might be bothered if I keeled over. Nobody sees it; I’m what some people call “high functioning”, on track for a good degree and still resembling a functioning human being. There can’t possibly be anything wrong with me. Indeed, there’s nothing very much wrong with except for that fatal malfunction in the hard drive that’s telling me to self-destruct.
I am not always acutely suicidal, (though I am for at least a few months every year) but I can’t remember wanting to be alive. And I can’t imagine anybody being scared of death or upset by it. It’s a good thing, isn’t it? The absence of suffering is always good. I want people to know that I want to die. I want them to understand that I’ll be happier when I’m not around to be miserable, and I want them to be happy about that too. Why not? I know I would be if this concerned anyone else. And, you know, I have perfectly good organs that might help out some people who actually want to be here.
The idea that suicide is an option (and that I might actually succeed) is what allows me to keep going, some days. The right to self-determination is paramount. Take that choice out of my hands, and I will have absolutely no reason to want to prolong this agony – but, ironically, no way to end it. Literal hell on earth. If one wishes to torture, in my mind that’s the way to do it.
Stella,
You didn’t mentioned if you had a psychiatrist or a therapist. Nor did you mention if you were on any medication for depression. I would highly recommend one or the other. I have both. I remember the days of feeling the only way to end my pain was suicide. I remember one suicide attempt where it took months for me to feel happy that I actually survived. I know how it feels to think having suicide as a back up was somehow soothing.
Please seek help from a doctor. Suicide should not be our only answer to this pain we feel in life. It’s time to really take care of yourself, because your life matters. You are important, no matter what your brain tells you. You are needed even when you feel worthless You are okay where you are right now. I wish you the best.
Stella, have felt the same as you about suicide since about the same age. One must feel one has options even if not optioning them. My worst fear is being locked up in a hospital setting forced to live through an extreme agitative depressive episode with no access to medication, booze or drugs of any king to end the immediate suffering just temporarily. It is one of the main reasons I don’t seek help when needed.
When I was sent to jail for a short period once (for fighting for the civil rights of us and others) I was immediately put into solitary confinement. Then all my clothes including my underwear and glasses were taken. A camera and lights were left on for eleven days straight. No reading materials were allowed. No shower, no cup to drink water from the sink. The camera observed all my bodily functions on the toilet. I was put on half rations as I was later told. About 1,000 calories. No attorney and no visitors. When i said to the nurse passing by the cell that I was “going nuts” in the cell she said “that’s why your in there. No cause and effect in her mind was rational and I suspect she wasn’t either. No bed sheet or blanket (or mattress to speak of). The heat was varied from severe heat to severe cold. Of course no medication, including aspirin for my severely disfigured spine.
My only relief was that I could dream of death by suicide. Very difficult in that environment of course but smashing head etc. against wall and so forth may have been doable.
Hang in there Stella. That was my grandmothers name (she was Polish). It is your right like mine to end it if being tortured (US doesn’t call that or anything else torture of course, unless done to “special” Americans. You have a right to do what you think is right. WN
Dear Stella,
I read your narrative and it is troubling to me.
You make no mention whether or not you’ve told your family/friends/loved ones and/or physician/psychiatrist of your worsening suicidal ideations.
From my vantage point as a very, very long-time support person to my spouse Joyce who suffered from MDD for some 36 years with 9 suicide attempts notched in her medical history I would suggest to anyone having similar thoughts to those you have described to immediately alert the aforementioned group so that they can be alerted to keep a keen eye upon you.
In your narrative you’ve also omitted to mention the treatment options you’ve unsuccessfully utilized. More importantly, having the knowledge that I’ve acquired over 50 some odd years as a mental health advocate/activist and support person I would feel certain you have not explored and/or tried all the treatment options available that might potentially yield a degree of efficacy for you.
Unlike Will Nist’s narrative and experiences with hospitalizations my spouse’s hospitalizations were 180 degrees different. She was kept safe, cared for, treated very well and it gave both of us a needed respite. Hospitalization is another option you omitted to mention but is worthwhile if one is in dire straits, in my opinion.
Incidentally, Joyce has been depression free for the past 15 or so years because we did not give up and finally found a treatment that worked for her.
As a reasonably intelligent woman I can only encourage you and your support people to educate yourselves as to what is available in treatment options, be persistent and hopeful and then consider venturing forth.
I wish you and all those who read my comments wellness and all the good you’d wish for yourselves.
Sincerely,
Herb
http://www.vnstherapy-herb.blogspot.com
http://www.vnstherapy.wordpress.com
The minute I hear the term “narrative” in response to another (especially when repeated a couple of times or more) my paternalism (marginalize the speaker) sensor goes up. As in their story is not real and is a figment of their imagination. And this was only reinforced by the rest of your comment.
I think we both know the “real” compassion and care that are given to the majority of the mentally ill when asking for help. If all else fails in helping the MI we might just have the friendly police come and get them. If they don’t follow orders we can just forcefully apprehend them. If they resist, shooting them is ok. If they die from this help we can then say it is suicide by cop. All is well. The police, the mental health community, the press and others now can again blame the one who is ill and still come out hero’s.
Just call me paranoid (the most popular way to discredit and marginalize the MI). But another dual comment against me appears again simultaneously on another thread of Natasha’s forum. If Tru-Death again they should learn to stagger their attacks.
Sorry, Stella if you don’t know what I mentioned by True-Death. They are just a bunch of low-life scum that have spent much time and energy on this forum trying to push vitamins at very high prices to the suicidal and depressed. The owner drove some of his own family members to suicide as well as many others. He has been investigated by the Canadian gov. The owner and his employees are without honor and are greedy to the extreme.
Ask for help if you need it but heed my warning. It may very well go in a way you didn’t expect.
Hope you feel better but please don’t waste any money from scam vitamin companies trying to sell you
something. There are good people out there that don’t just want your money. Just be aware. When they start asking, you know what they are about.
Likely through experience here this person above doesn’t exist and neither does his “loved one”. No one @ True-Death(Hope, Synergy(there is a reason for name changes) has a clue about love, respect, car etc.etc. They are true scum that you have heard about your whole life and questioned if they exist or not. They do.
Again-good luck Stella-WN
I totally disagree. THere are times when people are in extreme pain from chronic conditions, both mental and physical that ARE NOT deadly but are life limiting to the point where no life is being lived. Years and years of exhaustive treatments have been exhausted without success. These people have a right to choose a compassionate death. As aperson who lives with chronic physical pain, depression, anxiety, and grief, I can understand this feeling. Currently, I am writing a living will so that shoild things come to that point, my wishes were expressed while I was sane and NOT contemplating suicide. I am suggesting a planned death. Not a suddenly allowing someone to make an instant decision.
I do not want my children watching me suffer and spending money on keeping a body alive that has no living left to do. A life with no quality may sound OK to you but I certainly do not want to be lying in a bed 24/7, in pain, doing nothing but staring at a wall in some facility.
Currently, I have exhausted every possible medication for treatment of my depression that I am aware of. I have tried many combinations and dosages. I have only had limited success for short periods of time with standard antidepressants. I had great success with an MAOI for many years and it stopped working. Adding an antipsychotic was unhelpful and caused untolerable side-effects. Treatment for hypothyroidism has not decreased my depression. I would rather be dead than try ECT. Not because of the treatment itself but because of the potential for memory loss. My seventeen year old died and under NO circumstances do I want to lose a single memory of him, even if it contributes to my depression. I would rather live in pain than not have my good memories of him.
I am NOT suicidal but I can foresee a day when I will have had enough of this. Right now I can still function a little and I have not given up hope. There are still days where I am not suffering and I do have an hour or a few where I do enjoy things. I do still smile sometimes. These times are slowly decreasing. The options for treatment are waning. I have two friends left. One is in as bad shape as I am. I have no family that cares for or about me other than older parents who cannot do much and a son who lives too far away to do much of anything. He also does not have the means to care for me. He is an independent student. I also do not want him spending his young life caring for a miserable old lady.
Thank you for writing this article. I am fighting suiicidal thoughts now. My last suicide attempt, it took months to be happy that I lived. This article was written with folks like me in mind. I’m going to keep fighting and this article just gave me fuel to do just that. I’m going to share this post, because I know there are other people who need this message. Thanks again!
I have survived long periods of bipolar depression and suicide was the go-to. Suicidal thoughts are the heaviest any one person can carry. I had a meeting with my psychiatrist yesterday – and I told her that I have not had any suicidal thoughts in the last few months. She was pleased. And so am I. I can’t really tell someone how to get rid of suicidal thoughts and I can’t save someone from their misery. I can show my support only.
I took the steps that I needed to take so that I could get better. Looking back, I am so glad I did not kill myself – even though at the time it seemed like my only option.
My health affects other people and so managing my bipolar issues is definitely first priority. I’ve taken small steps that have helped me immensely. I have a purpose! And my support circle needs me.
This will be short. There was a time when I wouldn’t have accepted this. However, from my own experience, I promise you that when one is terribly ill, suicide honestly and truly seems like the best option for all. I remember feeling so happy that I was simply going to end the mess I had made for my family. Now, I see how devastating it would have been. How angry they would have been, and rightly so. So, again, I remember those times so well. I tried but made it through, and now that gives me the happy, happy feeling. Thank you.
I too have been in a very dark place and wanted to end my life. I can relate to the overwhelming pain that goes along with the depression and the sense that there is no way out. However, I believe there is hope. No matter what pit I am in. No matter how loud the voices are that scream in my head to go through with it. There will always be hope.
Today is one of the roughest one minute okay…
Then felt a drop in the pit of my stomach…I can’t handle simple decisions,tried to get my Dr ..he’d left for the day.
Then I got frustrated,angry…..
It’s not like me to keep trying,but..right now..I’m sick of being so sick.
Being so much heavier ( used to have a great body for someone in 50 s ) I can’t lose weight,no matter what………
That,in itself,saddens me.
My friend washed my good jeans on hot wash now they are ass tight or I’m fatter or both….
I know I use to attract guys like flies,now they never look…..guess not..when you hate your body it shows….
Thought I was improving,I see that was a lie,
Maybe I wanted to believe so much,deluded myself into it….
Cried all day,ate very little…
Hate life.
It’s sunny & nice here,I don’t give a shit….I’m in the pit of despair….
I’ve no support system,but Dr …family no no…..as most of us they can’t be objective.
I’m very very depressed…..& frightened.
That,is not a lie.
My bipolar really scares me…sometimes I shake…I’m so afraid.
The crisis lines are BS,plus you can’t ever get a line….
And I’m not w their mental health association …so…
Plus what do I expect?
Most are lame college kids..sorry,but I say it like it is.
Sometimes I wonder if ever the meds will be right….BS,rules= no fun.
Other ladies my age are in relationships…or married,
Fuck.
I hate bipolar,my other many medical illness,
I’m sick / tired of trying…& like I’ve heard others say…
Honestly…ppl would get over it if something happened….
They don’t walk in my shoes!!!
End
Sandra, it affects friends and relatives much more than you realise. You will find online research that has found a suicide in a family significantly increases the likelihood of others in the family following suit, especially children. So, if you do it, there is a distinct possibility that your example will encourage a brother, sister, cousin, daughter, son, nephew and niece follow your example.
Also, suicides can break up families and friendships. Some of friend and relatives will always torture themselves for, as they perceive, not giving enough support or not noticing the desperation of their lost friend or relative. Others may also blame each other for not giving enough support, too. For example, a lady I know has been cast out by most of her family because they blame her for her husband’s suicide. They accuse her of not supporting him. Ironically, his mother doesn’t and they have become close since his death.
So, it isn’t as easy for them as you might think to ‘just get over it.’
harryf200
What is the purpose of your response to someone who is in terrible pain.? Do you know that doctors have one of the highest suicide rates in this country. Even more than we know becuase the other doctors can cover it up.. Is assisted suicide in other countries wrong . APparently not. So get off the stigma bandwagon and show some empathy instead of judgement.
Good work. I’m going to use the same line of reasoning to get my niece to study to be a vet instead of environmental science as see wants to. I’ll tell her she will cause me great distress if she makes choices I don’t like. Should have though like that when my parents were arguing a lot when I was a kid and told them to get divorced instead of staying together as they did. Guess everyones final choices shouldn’t be made for what they think is best by weighing in all the evidence. They should make all their life choices to please others.
By the way your opinions are hurting my feelings so I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t state any more opinions without first consulting me. Thanks, WN
Ever think harry that some people commit suicide because of their family’s. As in their family’s celibrate their death. As in family never gave a s___ to begin with. We all know of course that all the family’s of all those who ever attempted or committed suicide were so supportive and non-judgemental to the deceased. Sometimes the family if not totally at fault most definitely did not help the situation any. Family’s who join support groups after their relative has taken their own life never mention this possibility of course and the group leaders always absolve family members of any blame. WN
Will,
You are correct … The last discussion I had with anyone from my extended family who threw me away was my sister. I got her on the phone to see if we could talk.. I didnt speak but 3 words and she yelled at me “I hope you commit suicide”. and hung up. A punch to the heart.
Be well
Of course Michael. Dead men (and women) tell no tails. Including being treated like s____. Their voices are silenced when alive and then when dead. Those with any edge (including those who abuse family, those with money, press, legal, etc. access) will always have their stories told. The poor, dead, discriminated against and so on never have or will have much of a voice. The “strong” always get their opinions out their as well as judge the outcomes of them. This then becomes the basis for future rules, laws, regulations etc. in a nutshell. The truly successful a-hole not only kets away with his mis-deads but profits from it. Then congradulated. Putting words and actions in the mouths of the dead is not only common but legal. When it is the authoritys it is even done beforehand. With the full compliance and acceptence of the press and most people.
By the way it appears true death or some other entity knoxed me and been getting many porn offers etc. on my phone. I know how to spot it of course. They are playing a dangerious game as I have nothing to loose when discovered. They do.
As always feel as well as you can and the offer I gave you if even relevent is always on the table. Just need gas money and not much else and I’m in. I wish to be a good man and not a piece of s___ and as I’m feeling a bit better would like to help others. Only medical problems I really have now other then the BP is the chronic pain have had since a teenager and my very fine GP has that under control. WN
Hi Sandra,
I am sorry you are in so much pain. It is rough having a mental illness and you are right, it does suck. I know the feeling of being sick and tired of being sick and tired. I’m not sure if there is anything I can say to make it better. I know when I’m in that place, words just don’t get through that brick wall sometimes. I pray that you will find some relief of your symptoms. and peace, even if it is for a little while. Life can get better if we are just able to stick it out. I’ve been suicidal and sometimes I wonder if it was a good thing that I lived. Now, I’m in a better place. While I can’t say I love life, I can say that I am content with where I am in life. I hope you find that same space.
I read your site. I have taken much of the advice to heart (including upping the dose of a anti-psychotic medication) to what the doctor suggested) That turned out to be the key to a good night’s sleep and sanity the next day… I sit here, happy, hopeful and NOT in mental anguish. I kept trying, I didn’t give up. I’m in my early 50’s and have struggled with bipolar for 30 years. I am thankful those around me didn’t give up on me. I am thankful my husband when faced with the tears and “honey I’m down again “, just did whatever he could think of to help. Thank you Natasha, you were part of the key to the current solution . We should never every give up, the peace, the balance is out there, you just have to keep trying.
A fine article. I have been quite fortunate to not have any suicidal spells for a long time now. Doesn’t mean I don’t suffer in other ways though.
I have, yet again, been fighting through suicidal ideation and impulse to act for nearly 4 weeks now. The ideation is daily, 24/7 but the impulse or intent to actually DO.. is a hit and miss as to when that actually occurs. There have been numerous days that for a few hours… i had decided and “de-tached” myself in order to act… but because I fought through “the next 15 minutes”… I am still here.
I have also, re-started going to a psychiatrist and just saw a brand new one, today.. first visit. It was $225 out of pocket and only 1 hour. She is about my age, perhaps a bit older (early 50’s) and she primarily sees kids/adolescents but somehow.. she was assigned to me.
Her desk was, at minimum, 2.5” deep covered with books – papers – files – records and not a thing in any conceivable order. She had me weigh myself first (fat) and she checked my blood pressure (very bad) and then she proceeded.. with APPLE laptop on a rolling stand… inputting information as I tried to speak. Only, because she was more into the computer software system she had to manipulate info into… she kept stopping me, having me re-start and not really “listening”.
I got a script for Lithium 300mg the ER version… after I explained that I’d likely do better starting with the 150mg capsules and working my way upward.. being med intolerant and sensitive and that this was and has been beneficial to me.. in starting Lithium in the past… with fewer side effects overall. No… 300mg ER version since I also explained that lately I’d been forgetting my seizure medication and blood pressure medication….
Do I *feel* hopeful? Absolutely not and if anything, I feel even more depressed. I got the Lithium, which in the past has killed the suicidal ideation and intent… but she questioned again, the Bipolar diagnosis… didn’t want to discuss any of my “up” periods, only focused on my depressive state… and kept putting words in my mouth, so to speak, to summarize for herself in order to put in the computer that she was more attentive to…
ah well… to return in 3 weeks
do folks have a right to commit suicide? yes
have I attempted in the past? yes
why? because the excruciating mental and emotional pain so severe… and this is the thing; all the reasons i have are still there even when I am not actively suicidal… they are… it’s not as if they just magically go away… they just flow under the current, so to speak, until something triggers or a depressive episode kicks in
am i glad, time and again, to not have given in by giving up and laying down to not get up? no
so, why do I continue to get up and step forward when everything inside and out tells me to just lay down and die?
because I’m not allowed….
I’d be selfish and a coward… I’m told
and yet, if I were struggling and hurting and suffering with a bone, system, cancer or nerve issue… not too many would speak up if I chose to just lay down and die… many would think it the gentlest thing to do because the family would be all into caring for and watching and seeing… and secretly wanting it all to end soon so that the pain would cease not only for me… but for them as well
mental is well… just in my head
My partner suffers with mental health and she fights the urge to take her own life. One attempt I was told to prepare myself for the worst and hope for the best while she was in intensive care. I had to tell her daughter and family. However, when this first started I can remember discussions with various experts who all had negative views about the option of taking her own life but from my perspective if the living hell she was is in couldn’t be alleviated in a time frame she could exist in then I had to love her enough to let her go. That doesn’t mean to say I would give up on her, I do everything I can but happiness comes from within and what I can do is limited to the outside. It’s hard to feel you are not enough but that’s my filter not hers and I try not to let it get in the way because it’s not reality. I love her and want her here but not if she is going to feel tortured, some how like a river we have to find a path that is liveable for both. No-one said life meant total happiness but it has to be tolerable.
Life without freedom is close to worthless. I have a right as do others to kill myself. You may help but it is not your decision. If you take it upon yourself to make decisions for others you abdicate the right to make your own.
It is of course a tough move but so BP itself is tough. One thing not mentioned is how this paternalism is used beyond the good intentions and into the bad intentions. Ex: The much discussed firearms issue. I’ve been a victim of the label someone suicidal (at the time I wasn’t) to take away someones civil rights. At the time my guns were taken from me I was feeling quite well. The BP issue was used as a reason by corrupt police (whom I had previously made complaints about due to their treatment of me) , with the cooperation of a greedy family member who suddenly showed up after fifeteen years after the death of my father looking for money.
These issues do not exist in a vacuum. Even if they did suicidal behavior doesn’t give others the right to control you. If you try to control me I have a right to defend myself. As in, if you attempt to lock me up I have a right to stop you in any way I feel is OK to stop you. If anything violent occurs it is you to blame and not me. The last hospital I was locked up in made me suicidal. It did nothing to help. It was a zoo. A torture chamber meant to punish. Punishment disguised as helping. I will not tolerate that and will not have the excuse that I am suicidal to justify it. I have every moral right to stop such abuse and to use violence if I must to prevent it. I am BP but will not be treated again like an animal. I have never ever hurt another person and will not be treated like an animal. First make these hospitals humane, then maybe have the conversation you speak of. WN
Natasha,
Kudos go out to you gal for an outstanding ballsy and gutsy posting.
You are a meat and potatoes author while battling your own challenges; right on target!
As you know, I’m a very, very long-time mental health advocate/activist and support person to my spouse. With all due respect to the respondent thinking it “selfish” act of the individual to not think about the family (survivors) I think that person underestimates and misses understanding the gross agony and suffering of the patient and the singular thought at that moment of relieving such overwhelming pain and agony.
I never thought of my spouse ever being selfish after 9 unsuccessful suicide attempts but rather what I could try to do better to alleviate that state of suicidal despondency.
As always, keep up your thought provoking authorship as I continue to wish you wellness and all the good you’d wish for yourself.
Sincerely,
Herb
http://www.vnstherapy-herb.blogspot.com
http://www.vnstherapy.wordpress.com
Excellent article and very well said – there is always hope. I do not, for a second, judge someone who has made the decision to end their life (and successfully does) – not only is it not my place to judge anyone, I know how awful severe depression that is unrelenting with no end in site can be, and have been suicidal myself.
Spiritually I don’t think the person is punished, but just lost a very difficult fight. I agree with some commenters above, it is those left behind who suffer, I feel the deceased moves on in their journey.
I agree with you, Natasha. For much of my life since 2007 I have wanted to die. I was ultra rapid cycling (bipolar) and felt torn apart by the cycles. When my depressions got agonizingly deep and long I became suicidal. I saw no way out and couldn’t see my way into the future where I’d be free of the depression. My husband was tuned in and kept me safe — we had a pact that I would be honest and tell him when I seriously wanted to commit suiciide and was starting to consider how and when. He took me to a hospital of my choosing for my safety a few times. I had a change of meds in August last year and after all these years this time they’re working. Between the new meds and the skills I have developed, I have been level, “normal”, for almost nine months. I now have a good life and can enjoy my family and friends. I feel I have a bright future. Had I taken my life I would have missed all the enjoyable situations with my husband, family and friends.
I was in a brief bf situation few yrs past,he refused his meds.
Apparently staying w him was also a part time psych nursing job w no pay!
His Dad asked me to help…OM…
I had to due to his sleep all day wake all nite…END THAT.
He would call his psych drug dealer,but smoke pot ala carte….
BOUNDARIES …..he got interested in what my meds for pain looked like….DUH.
Ok.
SO LONG….I think,your BRAIN before your heart …old saying..if it looks too good…SOMETHINGS LIKELY SCREWED UP.
Plus he was BIPOLAR RAPID CYCLING LIKE me…..AGGGGGGHHHHHH.
Think I’ve got more toxic from ppl then meds,that’s the real deal.
Sandra,BP Cyberspace….xx
With every breath there is hope..indeed.
I think,the scariest part looking back now is not knowing what happens …after you commit the act.
No,I’m not religious…but am somewhat spiritual…plus,the effect on family…
I’m certain they’d hold themselves in someways accountable…
But,sum it up is this.
Were all adults.
Everyday we make choices…I’m not saying my or BP is a choice BUT ….saying I’m NOT going to EVER TRY AGAIN is.
No one can hold you hand,we all know those adamant do so.
There’s evidence of that in my family history as well.
On a lighter note,I’m definitely seeing ( have for quite awhile,there’s a difference) btw I’m done!
Just meaning I’m pissed off I hate my life FOR FEW HOURS…then I go watch Vine…laugh my ass off…
Then IM DONE,meaning WITH MY LIFE FOREVER.
FIGHT the GOOD fight….
You ARE WORTH IT!!
Ciao,Sandra From BP cyberspace ….hugs to all struggling & just trotting along like myself….
If you can’t smile ,I will send you a few :-)
IT IS NEVER OK! However, you cannot always stop it. Sometimes you have no clue it is going to happen. One of my favorite uncles wrote to me telling me how he was having a wonderful life. The following week he hung himself in his barn in front of his beloved horses. I was devastated. I had no clue he was in that frame of mind. I would have never in my wildest dreams pegged him to do that. So you see, often times it doesn’t show, and we have no clue but it is never ok.
I would never encourage someone to take their life It is not ok.. My sister has mental illness. Two years later still no medication. Refuses to get treatment. She often talks about suicide. Says she won’t make it in this world the rest of her life. I encourage her to get help all the time. Keep talking. Perhaps you or your loved one will seek treatment. It is the best thing you can do for yourself and the ones that love you. There are always better days ahead.
I haven’t been on here for a while. Nice to read your blog today Natasha. Have a great day!
When someone has have given up on themselves or on life is when they need others to be strong enough to NOT GIVE UP ON THEM.
I remember when I was suicidal. I was in a selfish state. Selfishness is the natural self-directedness of the suffering individual. I don’t think we should ever judge someone for being selfish, because nobody lets their own desires override concern for others except as a result of suffering, or the need to avoid suffering.
At one stage I was suicidal because I felt stuck. I was in a mental hospital. I knew I had to leave and rebuild my life, but I didn’t know how to do that. Suicide seemed logical. I couldn’t stay in hospital. I couldn’t rebuild my life. To die seemed the only logical option to me. I didn’t want that at that time. I wanted someone to show me how I could return to life outside the hospital, but I didn’t feel anyone was doing that. Perhaps, I felt, nobody could do that.
After my half-hearted suicide attempt I wanted to die for a different reason. i developed the delusion that the whole history of the human race would come to nothing because of my lack of courage. To believe such a thing was unbearable. What sense of guilt could be greater? Thankfully I was prevented from acting on my suicidal feelings at that time. Suicidal despair can sometimes be a stage we have to go through, a stage in the reorganisation of the ego. Sometimes when we are suicidal what we need is to die psychologically rather than physically.
Some suffer from suicidal feelings over many years. I don’t know what that is like. I can say that there was hope for me, after all I’ve been about eight years now without any symptoms of depression or psychosis. But if someone else says that their situation is not like that and that, for them, their is no hope, I can only say that I hope they are wrong and offer them any insights I may have accumulated through my own experience.
I suspect that a lot of people who commit suicide, or try to commit suicide, do so because they are caught in a negative feedback loop. They have some problems coping with aspects of life. This leads them to begin to feel like a burden on others. The more they worry about being a burden on others, the harder they find it to cope with life and thus the more they really are a burden on others. Self-criticism, rather than helping them to improve themselves, makes them into a self-absorbed basket case. This is why I say that unconditional self-acceptance is the basis for mental health. Beyond a certain point, self-criticism becomes self-destructive. Self-forgiveness is key to turning a negative feedback loop into a positive feedback loop.
If someone feels that suicide is a kindness to loved ones – a removal of “the burden of ‘me'” – then that is an indication of the blindness to others which comes with self-contempt. Even if an individual really is a burden to loved ones, the guilt that those loved ones will feel as a result of such a suicide is bound to be a far more terrible blight. I remember when I tried to kill myself, the pain that it would cause my family was the furthest thing from my mind. I was blinded by my own suffering. I was in a totally selfish state – the natural self-directed state of the suffering individual.
“Don’t we all have choices? If we’ve done all we can and life is absolute hell, then why convince people to continue to live such lives?
In short, no. But wow, do I ever have a lot to say about this!
To get one point out of the way, Ruth’s comment of 10 May, 2015 got under my skin. I profoundly disagree that suicide is a selfish or cowardly act. To the suicidal person, one’s death can be a gift to be given to one’s loved ones and the world; I don’t see how anyone can have been deeply suicidal and not have felt this way. However, to each her own. Just don’t call me selfish when I’m suicidal; that would be plain cruel. I don’t think I am alone.
With the passage of time, I have come around to your way of thinking, Natasha. For years I respected the rule set out by support list moderators that choice is paramount. That If someone wants to die, they should be permitted to do so without interference.
Now that I know how distorted my judgement was when I wanted to die, I disagree with those folks. *Any* decision or opinion that is formed under those circumstances is highly suspect. Even when each minute of torture is an eternity, Despite my very real desire to die at those times, and free myself from agony (and world from the burden of “me”), I’m super glad that I survived. I would have missed so much! (Now *that’s* selfish, if you like!)
Natasha, you said “As long as there is treatment available (and there is always treatment available, somewhere, somehow) then there is always hope.” It can be damned hard for many to find that treatment, that hope. Until our society and the medical establishment recognise mental illness on the same footing as other (physical) illnesses, millions of people will learn that treatment is *not* available . . . even though it may exist.
Great subject.
I don’t think Ruth is very sincere Paul. I believe she is something else. WN
Actually, I am completely sincere in everything I wrote. We all have different opinions, and that’s ok. We don’t all have to agree, but hopefully, we will all support one another in whatever we do believe.
If so I appologize. So many religious zeal here by some who haven’t been down a day in their life telling the rest of us how to live. When one invokes the diety’s and especially when they assign motives and conclusions to them is no longer in the world of the living. They have given up though and hence humanity.
I didn’t read the last sentence of your post so now I may undersrtand. Still I think saying suicide is cowardice to the true BP seems as absurd as about anything can be. WN
Never mentioned cowardice, it would take a huge amount of courage to actually commit suicide. Even in my darkest days, I am not sure if I can be that brave
Cowardice and selfishness. I suppose you are right. Two different things. Kind of like I guess killing say a dozen innocent children (won’t mention 9/11 etc. as far more to that according to most experts (not conspiracy but politics war etc.). You can commit an act that is very selfish (arguably all these motivations and so on are in ones mind to begin with (just speaking from my own perspective) individual. If you know you will be caught, tortured, imprisioned, trashed and so on it is still selfish but not cowardly.
I guess our english speaking culture at least has tried to tie these two things togeter for their own benifit. Con. and uncon. Sorry for thinking on the level of fools. Even with my probs. I try to avoid it as much as possible. WN
I don’t have to commit suicide.. The toxic poison that I have taken over the years has now impacted my kidneys, liver and heart and I am now told that I am diabetic becuase of a certain wonder drug I was taking.. Suicide by pharmaceuticals and shrinks.. And Natasha, you have been through 20 med changes at such a young age.. Wait until you get older and older and see how your body starts falling apart and your mind is so bad that you cant remember where you put your keys two seconds ago. It gets worse with age. I am 60. There is a reason our life expectancy is lower. ALl those wonderful drugs. If the freaking pharma companies and shrinks knew what they were doing and there were blood test , etc you wouldnt have had to go through 20 med changes.. That is beyond absurd in this day and age. Next stop ECT? I hear ketamine better knows ad horse tranquilizer is the new drug. ANd to those who say suicide is selfish, How dare you pass judgement on anyone. Murder is against the law and pharma companies know that so many of us are dying from them.. And how many commit suicide as a result of taking the drugs…… http://www.drugwatch.com/ssri/suicide/
Agree with some and not some. One thing though, I couldn’t donate a kidney to my best friend after a perfect match due to me being bi-polar and five to six visits to Hahneman hospital in Philadelphia. The BS, BA or MA in social work decided I was not competant enough to save my friends life. They led him to believe it was me who changed my mind instead of taking the responsibility themselves. The friendship forever stained. The transplant co-ordinator was told from day one I was BP and waited until about two and a half weeks before the surgury was planned to claim my inborn stupidity due to my BP. They took no responsibility and after I became very angry at their decision they after the fact said “see, this is the reason you were not allowed to donate your kidney”. This of course angered me so much I wanted to hurt someone. All of course in the end would be blamed on my BP and they again would take no responsibility. So convenient. A typical logical fault in formal reasoning that I always forget the name of. Using something after the fact as a pt. to prove your previous argument. The ass kissing feel good theistic religious BS that goes on with these nurse transplant co-ordinators is nauseating to say the least. I wouln’t even dought I was dismissed because I am an atheist. Of course, these decisions are not givin and I couldn’t even get the medical records on the whole deal. I’m wanting to have my kidney removed and burned in front of them to show their hypocrisy. Again, this proves I am incomp. and insane. I’m A neg. Need a kidney you got one. I’ll just hide medical records this time. No shit. No money. No strings. It’s yours. WN
I tend to agree with you on all points. That being said, suicide is the most selfish thing a person could do to their loved ones. They will always be left with the questions of what if they had done something different, what could they have done to help and so on. So for me, suicide is not an option.
But, having been there, I do have a plan and my family knows it.
When I have had enough and can’t take anymore I will talk with my family and if they agree we will head for assisted suicide so they can be there with me.
Suicide isn’t the answer, it’s a selfish way of dealing with problems. Hope is the answer, and there is always hope for a better day.
Rather schizo comments I know
You, hit on it, if there’s a chance the person will feel differently later (which with mental illness is almost certain) then its a bad idea. I would say the person that wrote you that needs to consider whether they have healthy boundaries with other people, to some extend he/she sounds enmeshed with this other person by the way that was worded.