This is a post I wrote a couple of years ago that I thought bared repeating.
There are very few times in life when I think it’s appropriate to be “mad.” It happens, without doubt, but generally I don’t find it very insightful or helpful. There’s always something underneath the anger. Usually it has to do with the desire to be loved. If you track the feeling back, like really, really back, that is what you’ll find.
- Wife screams at husband for leaving socks on the floor for the 18th time.
- Wife is angry because she doesn’t feel like her husband is listening to her.
- Wife wants to be listened to so that she’ll feel important to her husband.
- Wife wants to feel important to her husband so that she’ll know he loves her.
- Wife wants to know he loves her so she knows he’ll stay around.
- Wife is afraid of being left by husband.
- Wife is afraid of being unloved.
That’ll be $3000 in therapy bills, please.
There’s No Point Getting Mad About Socks
So you see, there’s no point in getting mad about socks. Just skip down a bit and talk about wanting to be listened to and feel important. The husband has more of a chance of understanding what’s going on that way. The husband has more of a chance of understanding why socks matter. When of course, socks don’t matter at all.
Other people don’t feel this way. Other people seem intent on yelling about socks. I get it; I’m weird; I’m crazy; I don’t perceive the world the way everyone else does. And I really don’t perceive whyfor all the yelling about socks.
Why Get Angry at People Just Doing What They Want?
I try to remember one golden rule when it comes to people – people do exactly what they want to do. When they do something nasty, it’s because they wanted to. When they did something hurtful, it’s because they wanted to. Whatever they did is what they wanted, and part of who they are, and you either deal with that or you don’t.
When I was ten my father didn’t show up to his own birthday party. His mother made a cake and there’s a picture of me, all dolled up, pretending to cut it, while we waited for him. He didn’t show. I was sufficiently screwed up at the time not to think this was all that weird.
He didn’t show up because it he didn’t want to show up. He’s just like that. Accept it and move on.
You Can Discuss Behavior, But It’s Still No Reason to Get Angry
Yup, we can talk about things, and I think it’s important to do that. I think it’s important that people understand each other. Because really, people make decisions without all the information. People do something hurtful, possibly, but they didn’t know it was going to be hurtful. It happens. Humans are walking disaster areas and sometimes we’re not aware of our impacts. Nevertheless. We make every choice. Commit every action.
Remembering that people only do what they want to do kind of makes me hate people. Others make up excuses for why things happen but I know those excuses are lies. I would be happier if I didn’t know those excuses were lies.
My favorite thing is “I didn’t have time.” Yes, you did. You had as much time as you felt like. You used your time on things you consider to be more important.
But then, no one wants to say, “sorry, you just weren’t that important.” Even though that’s what they mean. And I wish I just didn’t understand that.
People do exactly what they want to do. If you’re not important, then you’re not important. Un-fucking-fortunate but true.
You Shouldn’t Get Angry Because You Can’t Change People
But you can’t change people. If you’re not important then you’re not important. It’s pretty tough to become more important save blackmail or some such. Maybe the husband doesn’t care that his wife doesn’t feel important and it’s not worth the bother to him of picking his socks up. Just because she told him, doesn’t mean he’ll care.
People do exactly what they want and you can’t change them. True enough to make you want to drink drain cleaner.
Someone does something you don’t like: it’s just who they are. You either weave that into your understanding of that person, have a frank conversation about it and learn to live with it or you don’t.
Either way totally sucks.
Either way there’s no point in getting mad about it.
Hi, I agree with many of JulieC’s points. What if you turn it around and talk about our inconsiderate acts or omissions due to bipolar? Are they our choices?
Personally, I’d rather deal with some anger than with making someone I love feel unloved by me – when I really can’t change why I’m making him feel that way. And my SO at least would also rather I show a little anger at him over socks than “sock” him with a lot of my unearthed psychological pain caused by what socks “mean.”. It’s just normal to feel anger and show it, at least when you love each other. And it’s healthier than delving into underlying psychological issues a lot of the time.
It used to be the received wisdom among psychologists that “depression is anger turned inward.” Still applies to neurotic “depression” if not clinical depression. Trying to turn off your anger by telling yourself everyone does exactly what they choose to do causes some people at least (I’m one of them) to take it out on themselves instead. Much worse for everyone.
So true! It starts with the “socks” but its usually about the 2 or 3 major issues in the relationship. The “socks” are just the catalyst that lights the fuse…Great post Tracy!
I live with the fact that i am not important enough. Thats real fot me, what sucks is that i feel i have to retaliat.
Hi Robert,
I’m not sure why you think you’re “not important enough.” We’re all important – or as important as anyone else.
At any rate, I would consider that a false belief.
I’m sorry you feel the need to retaliate based on that kind of negative, self-harming belief. Maybe you can change the underlying belief and no longer feel that need.
– Natasha Tracy
Your candor all over your blog is so SANE, so mentally unimpaired. Just a short BRAVO in general. Second, one our therapists wrote a great post on this topic with some steps. Sounds like you are already familiar with nonviolent communication here…http://www.psychedinsanfrancisco.blogspot.com/2012/07/beyond-feelings-getting-started-with.html
Found u thru the twitter follow btw. great blog.
Getting angry about socks may be over-kill, but there are plenty of good reasons to get angry, and there’s nothing wrong with anger per se, it is a normal human emotion. Much human progress is the result of people who got angry about injustice and decided to do something about it. So you have a problem with progress, Natasha?
My hubby is a mini grizzly bear anger and all. Someone at his work gets to him something awful. I told him pick your battles don’t let them pick you. That you are responsible for your emotions including anger. And is getting mad at someone really helping? Or is it raising your blood pressure to stroke levels just so much fun you can’t resist doing it? Lol He growls concluding I might be a little right though never a lot on his account. Over the years his anger has improved much but sometimes a fiery temper isn’t all bad. It can lead to some heated make up moments too.
My hubby is a mini grizzly bear anger and all. Someone at his work gets to him something awful. I told him pick your battles don’t let them pick you. That you are responsible for your emotions including anger. And is getting mad at someone really helping? Or is it raising your blood pressure to stroke levels just so much fun you can’t resist doing it? Lol He growls concluding I might be a little right though never a lot on hus account. Over the years his anger has improved much but sometimes a fiery temper isn’t all bad. It can lead to some heated make up moments too.
Hi Natasha, I agree with most of what you are saying in this post, but I have a couple of quibbles. It is absolutely the case that anger is the expression of deeper issues, usually hurt and/or fear and that getting to the bottom of the emotion can help one to deal with it constructively. What anger does, in my view, is similar to what physical pain does: it alerts us that something is wrong and it motivates us to do something about it because it is unpleasant. I think it might be helpful to distinguish between feeling angry and being (or acting) angry. The feeling is useful, the way we act on it, often, is not. Finally, while it is true that people basically do what they want, they do not always know or understand the internal and external factors driving their behaviour or the effect that this behaviour may have on others. Making them aware of these effects, in a calm, non-confrontational manner may motivate them to change their behaviour.
Hi Maureen,
Great comment.
Yes, feeling anger can alert us to the fact that something is wrong. No problem there. I think I am of two minds about it though. On the one hand, yes, anger is like an alert system and thus can motivate us to do something about whatever is wrong, which is good, on the other hand, feeling anger tends to be negative and eat away at you so I’d rather treat it like water off a duck’s back. But this is a personal perspective. I think it’s more reasonable simply to move from a place of anger to a place of dealing with the issue, whatever it is, as soon as possible. Staying in anger is rarely helpful.
And you’ll get no argument from me on the the notion that people essentially don’t understand their own behavior. It’s hard to walk out the door and not be hit with that reality.
– Natasha Tracy
Donda,
Omg, You just explained in a tidy nutshell my entire relationship with my sister that is holding a grudge! She never lets anything out. you just see her steaming and boiling below the surface! She is refusing to forgive and is holding our entire family hostage with her anger. You pegged it! Made my day, thanks! and
Natasha, great things going on here, thank you.
Hi Laura,
Thanks. I hope it helps. :)
– Natasha Tracy
my teen daughter and I get into a row every few days… but, that’s normal – we are both girls. What gets to me though is: I’ll ask her to do a chore, she refuses – comes up with 1000 + 2 excuses why she isn’t or wasn’t or can’t or won’t do the chore… I get angrier and angrier and angrier
then she looks at me, sometimes, and yells “well, what difference does it make if I do this? It’s not that important. It doesn’t really matter.”
and depending on what it is.. cause it’s not every chore or all the time… and yet, if it is a particular task that I really need her assistance with OR depend on her to actually accomplish for me to make life so much simpler…
i’ve learned to speak “It may not be important to you and it may not matter much to you, but it matters to me and it’s important to me that you assist me. Because it matters to me and it’s important to me that you assist me on this… then it matters and is important, because i’ve asked you to do so.”
growing up as a child, in a abusive home.. where your feelings and needs were often not met by the adults who were supposed to be there for you and weren’t… because they were too wrapped up in their own problems and arguments and fights… and the majority of the time that they’d even pay mind to you was to hit you, scream at you, and belittle you … as to make you afraid to speak what is important to you and other things of life needed…
and then to have a husband who completely disregarded, showed every bit of disrespect, and sexually assaulted you… among other things… because you didn’t matter and weren’t important and what you thought and felt mattered not…
it’s been many many many years of therapy to get me to where… on occasion… I just speak my truth
it may not be important to you and I acknowledge that but because it’s important to me, makes it important especially if I am the one asking or assigning or needing to speak with you… while I acknowledge it’s lack of importance, perhaps to you… please acknowledge and respect that it has some importance to me…because I’m equally as important and matter as you
may not be the right thing or the politically correct thing… but it feels good, when I speak up, to say it…
Ninety-nine percent of the cases I encounter in therapy do present an anger-related issue. Just like the socks, the person in therapy has a chaotic struggle with trying to catch all the small stuff and very little idea of bottom-line wants, needs and goals.
Hi David,
Yes, I actually feel quite passionately about this issue because I really do feel that anger ruins relationships of all sorts but it doesn’t have to if people could just get to the underlying issues. But then, I suppose that’s your job :)
– Natasha Tracy
Ha ha :) Very good- will try not to get angry about the socks now!
Oh goodness, exactly what I need this morning. As the so-called sane half of a bipolar couple, I’m the one with anger issues. My boyfriend will watch in disbelief as I come apart in every which way, and then say, “I don’t get it, does this mean you want me to empty the dishwasher more often?” It’s true–anger is so complex that it has to be broken down into 20 parts before you get to the nut of the matter. And that’s so confusing to the other party that it’s better to just walk out of the room for a breather and bring it up in therapy.
Hi Marie,
Yup, anyone can have an anger issue even the “sane” one in a relationship :) I’ve seen it over and over. But yes, a breather and then bringing the issues up in neutral territory sounds like a good idea to me.
– Natasha Tracy
It may not just be about socks. It might be the fact that the wife asked about it numerous times and nothing ever changes. She may be tired if having more than the fair share of the responsibilities.
Hi Tanya,
That’s my point exactly – the socks always reveal something else about the person and the relationship. (My scenario was just an example.)
– Natasha Tracy
Not exactly. Sometimes the socks are about the socks. And the shoes. And the dishes. In fact, frequently the socks are the tip of the iceberg of a narcissistic, exploitative behavior. Yes, people do what they want to do, but getting angry about being exploited and taking action to put a stop to it is very important to bipolar people who have comorbid Borderline Personality Disorder.
That anger might be the key emotion prompting breaking off a relationship with a narcissistic partner early, before the Borderline is trapped. That anger might be the key emotion prompting the recovering Borderline to stand up for herself and take a firm, non passive-aggressive approach to exploitative behavior by someone she has to live with.
There are other ways to use anger and respond to anger than screaming at someone or having some kind of destructive reaction. You can have a “Wise Mind” response to healthy anger.
It is good, appropriate, and healthy to become angry when a situation is happening where you NEED to stand up for yourself and take a firm stand. Pain working right, in a healthy body, tells you when something is going wrong that could damage your body. Anger, in a healthy mind or a stabilized, well-functioning mind, tells you when this is a battle you need to pick, when this is situation you need to address–you can’t just let it ride and leave your hand on the hot stove, burning, you have to make and carry out a serious plan about how to get your figurative hand off that stove.
Usually it’s more like getting out of the sun or getting on some sunscreen before you burn–you have to do something, you can’t just stand there and bake. That’s the thing with the inconsiderate spouse where the socks are the tip of a whole narcissistic, exploitative, you get to pick up after me because my time is more important than yours iceberg.
I also completely disagree with you on the “I didn’t have time” meaning “you just weren’t that important.”
You are not the same thing as whatever task or favor or whatever it is that you asked for. Your request is not you. If your casual, not-quite boyfriend stands you up for a not-quite date (small group) to see the Sex and the City movie at the dollar theater and says he didn’t have time, that may say a lot more about how he feels about bad chick flicks than how he feels about you.
Or, a lot of times, “I didn’t have time” is shorthand for, “I don’t want to TMI you or go into my personal business listing for you all the truly Earth-shattering level things that were in line before you. It was a long list. I was booked pretty damned solid. Yes, I did take the occasional coffee and bathroom break, but damn.”
And most healthy people hear “I didn’t have time”–usually phrased more like, “Sorry, I’ve been really swamped lately. There’s a push on at work.” (Or whatever.)—and say something like, “Yeah, I know how that is.”
Where I disagree with you is in tone. Yes, these people had all the time they wanted and they chose to use it on something or someone else. But it wasn’t necessarily because the speaker “just wasn’t that important” as a *person*. Their *task* or *request* didn’t make the “what I choose to do now” list–but the things that out-competed it could have been major league.
Or maybe “you just weren’t that important.” Sometimes that’s true. But assuming it to the point of adopting it as an axiom is the depression talking.
As to “people do what they want” — I have a tough time with that, because it makes it seem/feel like I’m just a jackass when I’ve been asking my pdoc for help with my meds, and he’s been trying, but I still have trouble getting out o bed to get things done. Because obviously if I wanted to I’d get out of bed and pack my room up and do my laundry go sort the household goods in my storage unit preparatory to my move instead of sitting here on my butt typing. If I wanted to, I’d have gotten out of bed yesterday, or the day before that, or the day before that, or the week before that, or the month before that–more than I have.
If I wanted to, I’d just get up and do normal stuff instead of sitting here and doing bipolar kinds of stuff, right? Only…there’s want to, and then there’s will to, and then there’s sometimes will to stay awake, and there’s all the things that affect wanting to….
I think what you said about anger is thoughtful and valuable. I think that if your model for what “getting angry” is is “screaming at people” that yeah, there’s no point getting angry. I think there’s a much better model for getting angry. I think healthy anger is the anger that prompts you to ask yourself–I’m just going to go with the metaphor—“Is my hand on a hot stove? Which hand? What stove? What’s the best way to get it off of there?”
When you stick your real hand on a real hot stove, the immature reaction is to pull it off and to run around screaming about the burn. The mature reaction is that you still pull our hand off the stove, and you might well yelp or cry or grit your teeth against the pain. But instead of running around yelling hysterically, you’re going to immediately do something constructive about it, like run your hand under cold water to stop the damage progression, and so forth.
It’s not pointless to get angry. It’s pointless to throw a screaming tantrum when you encounter something that stirs up some feelings of anger.
Even if it’s old leftover anger from baggage, it’s still productive. Having run into something that stirred it up is like a life event lanced boil for you. It’s an opportunity to, recognizing that it’s baggage and that your hand is not on a new hot stove now, breathe, recognize you’re away from that hot stove, and let that anger just go ahead and be. If you breathe and don’t feed or fight baggage anger, but just sit there with it, breathing, and *allow* it–it’s a funny thing. If it’s not fought or fed, just allowed, and sat with, it eventually drains away a bit. It takes multiple stirred up times over time. But it’s like letting pus drain out of boils. Most of my own PTSD flashbacks were caught up with a whole lot of anger and fear and rage.
Anger’s not simple.
(Sorry for the rambling. I usually try to organize my points better. I had to take a Vicodin for a toothache, and it goes funny with my meds. One of the weird sides of being medicated–the unpredictability of interactions once your doc throws a personal pharmacy into your bloodstream. I need everything I’m taking, but I also need to get that danged tooth out. My own comorbid PTSD is where I encountered a lot of DBT-derived skills training as well as interacting with a bunch of other folks, gals mostly, who had BPD and bipolar together. The various skills-training groups I was in also had people with anger management issues. So while I’d never talk about anyone else’s stuff in a way that had a snowball’s chance in hell of being even vaguely identifying, this is the kind of ball we kicked around a fair bit together. Obviously, you have too, since you work in the field.)
julieC, i was going to disagree with this post in an entirely different way, but reading your thoughtful & thorough(!) comment derailed my thoughts. you sound well-versed in therapy-speak (better than many professionals i’ve known) and thus inspires respect verging on awe in me…. but… and there’s always a ‘but’… i wonder if you’ve gone too deep into self-examination. my own bipolar experience seems to have taught me that psychiatry etc can only explain so much about life, and that true health requires the authenticity to leaving the models behind. at its best, healthcare is a nurturing parent; at its worst, well we only need look at the haldol generation of meds to know that incompetence is a killer. either way, adulthood for me has meant a rejection of both the medical model and the various psychological approaches. at some point we must live our lives like everyone else, all the while knowing that everyone else has their own basket of unseen defects too.
Thank you Natasha. Did you write this for me? LOL
I have been very angry and frustrated this last week for many of the reasons you included in this post.
I will be revisiting this post as I reflect within. This anger is not serving me right now.
Thanks Lee xox
Hi Lee,
I did not write this post for you :) but I did think you might find it useful. I was thinking of you when I Tweeted it for some reason. Glad you found it.
– Natasha Tracy
Tammy,
Thank-you for saying that in such a beautiful and simple way. It means a lot.
– Natasha Tracy
bipolartoo,
yeah, the kicker is it's not the crazy people who get crazy mad. At least, not with me. It's the sane ones that are always losing it. And I guess I have no experience in the area because I've never once been enraged in my adult life. I gather it does happen to everyone. Just not to me.
– Natasha Tracy
Midnight Rainbow,
Yes, you do have to feel safe to be able to get mad at someone, and admittedly, this isn't something I generally feel. You're lucky to have found it in a husband :)
– N
Stumbled on your blog tonight, and I love the way you write, and express yourself so beautifully.
:) Tammy
Intellectually, we all know this is true. But I think there are times in our bipolar lives when rage just takes hold and rationality goes out the window. At those times, we're beyond reason. I've had a few of these, and I always end up apologizing after the fact (and regretting it for years). They can really be quite frightening.
I was never allowed to get angry so instead I got hurt and took it out on myself. This has been my pattern until I met my husband and it was safe to be angry with him. I totally agree with the wife and the socks scenerio. It's never about the socks or underwear or robe, or jeans or…lol
This is so true! I am going through stupidity with my sister and she will be mad forever. What kind of screwed up do you have to be to be happier being mad?
Hai,,i like the reason