Among many things, I have been accused of dismissing the pain of psychiatric patients. Oh, excuse me, “psychiatric survivors.” And I would like to clarify something – I have done no such thing. I, personally, have my own painful stories about psychiatry and I don’t dismiss mine so why, exactly, would I dismiss anyone else’s?
The Term “Psychiatric Survivor”
One of the reasons that people are so mad, I suspect, is because I refuse to use, and do not support the term, “psychiatric survivor.” I consider that term to be flagrantly inflammatory and downright ridiculous. People aren’t “oncology survivors” (although many people have bad experiences with cancer treatment), people aren’t “cardiology survivors” (in spite of the fact that some people have horrible stories to tell), people are just patients – oncology patients, cardiology patients and psychiatry patients.
On an individual level, I don’t care what people call themselves and if, for some reason, calling themselves a “psychiatric survivor” makes them feel better, then they should feel free to go ahead and do it, but to expect a rational, thinking, intelligent human being with a full grasp of the English language and psychiatric system to absolutely, necessarily agree with it? I think not.
However, just because I refuse to use ridiculous wording, this doesn’t diminish the experiences that these people have had.
Painful Psychiatric Patient Stories
I know all sort of psychiatric patient stories – some of which are horrendous, some of which are miraculous. I have my own psychiatric tales, some of which are horrendous and some of which are miraculous. That’s because psychiatry is like any branch of medicine – sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t.
For example, I know of someone who has a very nasty cancer, and so, of course, is getting treatment. That treatment caused a heart attack. A heart attack! That is no mild side effect. And yet, does she consider herself an “oncology survivor?” Um, no. She simply understands that what happened was that she was in the minority that experience that one, significantly horrible, side effect.
And, might I say, the treatment for cancer kills many people. Kills them. Like, dead. And people think psychiatry is so much worse than that? Yeah, that’s not rational thinking.
Psychiatry Isn’t Perfect
Of course, in saying all that, it’s important to remember that psychiatry isn’t, and psychiatrists aren’t, perfect. We’re talking about imperfect human beings and an imperfect human system. And of all the branches of medicine, one might consider psychiatry to particularly be in its infancy. I would imagine that 100 years from now, how we treat mental illness today will be considered laughable. (But then, that can be said for pretty much any branch of medicine.)
And psychiatry, perhaps, might be considered one of the most challenging areas of medicine because doctors are required to rely on patient self-reports so very much (except for maybe this brain scan).
And, of course, there are also very bad psychiatrists out there – much like there are bad cardiologists, oncologists, plumbers and everything else.
Dismissing the Pain of Psychiatric Patients
So when someone has a negative story to tell about psychiatry, it may very well be 100% true. I can’t say; I wasn’t there. But these stories should always be tempered by rational thought and an understanding that for every horror show there is a miracle. To view one side without the other is irrational. To think that psychiatrists hurt all they touch is ludicrous. To generalize any single story, including your own, to the population at large, is a logical fallacy.
So I don’t dismiss the pain of psychiatric patients. Many psychiatric patients do experience real pain in the psychiatric system and at the hands of a psychiatrist, no doubt about it.
What I dismiss is the notion that the psychiatric system is simply all that way. What I dismiss is the notion that a handful of stories personify the greater whole. What I dismiss is that one bad psychiatrist ruins the whole bunch. What I dismiss is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. What I dismiss is the notion of antipsychiatry in general.
So no, I don’t dismiss experiences. What I dismiss is one-sided thinking.
Personally, don’t see a problem with this term. It’s really, just to convey a certain meaning. A lot of specific, problem that many people identified with at the hands of psychiatry. I don’t see a need to nitpick psychiatry survivor. I mean, I’m not sure you even grasp the point, given said analogies. Alll those medical practices lack the experience. If someone claimed to be an “oncology sufferer”, or a “cardiology survivor”, I would ask them to clarifie, as I’ve never been in this situation, if they wanted. I would not nitpick, the wording, of someone in pain. Yea, you kind of are diminishing the experiences they had. I would say it’s ridiculous to say you’ve experienced negative things in psychiatry, on account that you don’t identifie yourself as a “psychiatric survivor”
I find it very rude, to refer to it as ridiculous wording. Not to mention, there are many stories of this happening, on a very large scale. There are many documented cases. Has to mentioned again, a lot is forced. They don’t need proof, and it’s forced. Yet, even given proof, I don’t think, oncology would be forcing people treatment. Not to mention, people do drop out of treatment, if they based on the cons of treatment. Yea, cancer treatment often does kill people, a very tragic double edged sword, and it’s an undeniable burden. Although, psychiatric meds can to. Many come with a black box warning. Some for people, who would otherwise not be at risk.
Although, you know what they mean, so why not just let it go, and address their concerns. Instead of belittling them. You say you’re rational. Well, you make pretty bold statements. Unfounded bold statements. For every horror story there is a miracle. It’s disappointing considering, I expected more, acknelledging it needs work. Granted I think they’re going in the wrong direction, admittedly, is realatively new. You could’ve said. There are some miracles, or I see more miracles, evening the scales, as we learn more. Sorry, no, I don’t see it as an even scale, as far as descent to horror, let alone miracle.
Again, you do make some good, points. Like it does rely a lot on individual reports, which is undoubtlny going to be tricky. However, I see a lot as ego problems. They need to realize they may not, know best at times. This can be made easier, by listening to the pataint, and consulting other professionals, including medical, neurology, and even with alternatives to psychiatry. Also, just the general, public, including pataints, advocates, and just anyone. Also, be willing to just say they don’t know sometimes, reconsider opinions, or say when they can’t do anything, and make referrals. Offer alternatives, if the risks out way, or isn’t helping.
Of course they should, stop forcing, and if their isn’t proof admit it. Offer alternatives. Don’t pretend like they know people better than themselves. Lastly, I find a lot of what you are saying lacking in compassion. If someone said they, had a bad experience with any treatment, I would not immediately jump to all the people it’s helped. It may be true, but it’s not irrational, that someone is hurt, and focused on that. If someone complained bad reaction, to diabeties medicine, I would not ask why they were not, coupling with positive results from the medicine. Granted, I may bring up, eventually, depending on the situation.
Do you have a problem with the expression “cancer survivor”, because I used to be a cancer patient, now i’m a cancer survivor, and i’m very happy about that. Just like I used to be a psychiatric patient and now i’m a psychiatric survivor, which i’m also very happy about :)
While I have ‘survived’ some awful things, and some at the hands of medical professionals, I would never want to be identified as a ‘survivor’. Although experiencing these things has made me who I am today, I would rather not be identified by having gone through these terrible things but rather by the person that I am.
I like this blog and find it helpful. Thank you Natasha.
Im so sorry for people who cant find a shrink that can help them, it must be dishearting My doctor is wonderful have had him for 20 years I so afraid he will retire and what will I do.
I would not have been able to accomplish what I have without psychiatric intervention. I have been overmedicated at times, I had a bad experience with ECT, and I worry about the long term effects of taking an antipsychotic for years, but I am much better off than I was before my bipolar I was treated. As I get older, my bipolar seems to be improving and I am getting by on less medication. Right now my psychiatrist thinks that Seroquel is the safest option for sleep, safer than Ambien. I am taking a low dose and I am sleeping well although I worry about what it could be doing to my overall health. I am being patient and learning as much about new treatments as possible. My psychiatrist has tried some of the less harmful, newer medications, and they haven’t worked for me so far. It is frustrating that there is so much trial and error in psychiatry. I am hoping for more targeted treatments in the future as doctors start to have a better understanding of this condition.
I’m back, perhaps healthy enough for a healthy discussion. I have spoken about this before, that in changing attitudes changing the language isn’t enough. A new label on an old attitude will eventually revert to the meaning of the old attitude. New attitudes must be discovered and reinforced environmentally.
Stockholm Syndrome is a psychiatric syndrome. That’s odd.
Don’t know Chrissy. Stockholm Syndrome is like other types of abuse or legit change to me. Gain the trust of someone and use inconsistent reward and punishment to create the maximum anxiety in the victim. This like all things can be done for good and evil. Interpreted by the one in power in that situation. Then use inconsistent reward for behavior and also consistent reward in the victim. This creates a target who is emotionally damaged and suggestive to control. WM.
This line of reasoning is ridiculous,
“People aren’t “oncology survivors” (although many people have bad experiences with cancer treatment), people aren’t “cardiology survivors” (in spite of the fact that some people have horrible stories to tell),”
Last time that I checked, there is no manual of oncology or cardiology embedded in our federal or state laws that FORCES people to be a cancer patient or a cardiology patient. People are FREE to become such.
Psychiatry has an unparalleled power to impose legally its invented diseases on people, like yours truly, who want nothing to do with psychiatry. Therefore, I am a survivor of a coercive psychiatric intervention.
You are, willingly or unwillingly, part of the psychiatric oppressive regime. All oppressive institutions need their share of Stockholm syndrome sufferers to be successful, and psychiatry is no different.
I am 63 years long and a lifelong psychiatric “consumer” ( yes, I hate that term as well)- and I have to say that I have experienced the harm done by psychiatry – especially in the 60s and 70s. Those were not good times for folks like me. I have also worked as a psychiatric nurse and have witnessed co workers abusing psychiatric patients and seen therapists working who had no skills and no ability to help anyone. I would hope that things have improved, but at my last job ( working in the community ) I did not see a lot of improvement. Perhaps ideas had changed but clients were treated without a great deal of respect and dignity.
For years my bi polar disorder was treated by psychoanalysis which made things infinitely worse. The shift away from psychoanalysis has been encouraging, but so much remains. I consider my self an analysis survivor, in some ways. I see great hope in the “recovery” philosophy and hope that things continue in this vein, along with, of course, investigation into new treatments both pharmaceutical and otherwise.
My personal experiences with the mental health community has, generally, been positive. I’ve not found you to be negative toward the patients pain; hard lined maybe, but I don’t interpret that as dismissive.
What I feel gets lost though is that a huge chunk of the mental health population is not the people we see at work, in our families etc. I see these people. They are my friends, my people. They are sometimes delusional, many more often than not, often have been hospitalized for YEARS on end. They are traumatized from state hospitals, their worst fear is to go back. I love in a county with a phenomenal mental health system. We get patients out of long term facilities and into group homes, day programs, therapy etc. That’s how I know this … I’m disabled, was in a day program twice with “low functioning” people who have been abused by the revolving door of psychiatric run amuck on people who had no advocates and couldn’t advocate for themselves. It’s a large program with a huge waiting list both in mine and two other counties that I know of … This isn’t a small issue … I’m now in supportive housing with a case worker, therapy and a “higher functioning” group but I walk across the parking lot because those are my people and always will be, they saved me when I wanted to die. They understood me and even in though they had little to give, they gave their help. We need to see their real pain, bad medicine, use as guinea pigs, and yes – stuff given to them that causes serious health issues like diabetics, blood pressure, stroke etc – and speak for them. My friends are in pain.
Are you fucking serious? Szasz arguments was against involuntary psychiarty, not between two consulting adults. If the psychiartrist does’nt work for the “patient” then of course he is more likely to be “malpracticed” i can believe that people follow you, all i read is fucking ad hominem and strawman fallacies, people are really stupid, no wonder, to much hollywood shit and american tv shit makes people fucking zombies.
I don’t care for the term psychiatric survivor either, but it’s a lot better than consumer, that’s for sure!
I care give for two people who have serious physical problems, and I definitely see a difference in quality of care for physical health problems and mental health problems, in three ways.
The first way I see this is that the staff are kind as anything in the hospital for these two. Kind as anything to me, too. Beyond kind – overwhelming care and kindness. Actually, unlike many people with a mental health label, when I get my own care for physical problems, I’m treated with kindness and respect and only a couple of times did doctors discount me as a mental case.
I have NEVER received that in the mental hospital with the exception of my first time at a university hospital 20 years ago, and since then, from a couple of nurses here and there in community hospitals. Many caregivers in the mental hospital were outright abusive to patients. At the state hospital, it was deliberate, not just callous burnout behaviors. I was inpatient a lot because the prescribed drugs were making me so much worse (but the psychiatrists all said it was the bipolar). I saw a lot of mistreatment, some towards me, and a lot more directed against others. It wasn’t medical mistakes. It’s the way inpatient psychiatric treatment is provided. At the state hospital, the way the patient handbook was written, it was if they were training chimps. i should dig that thing out and type it online – it was extremely demeaning. I complained and the thing was rewritten because it was totally obvious how it talked about patients like chimps.
The second way I see this is that overall, specialists in other areas of medicine that I am familiar with are ON AVERAGE much smarter than psychiatrists. I seriously think that ON AVERAGE the folks who go into psychiatry are the ones who are struggling in medical school. I had a psychiatrist ridicule me for my vocabulary and my hobbies right in my medical chart. Am I writing so fancy with too many 50 cent words that I deserved that? I figure he was insecure. I had a therapist look at the notes, and she was shocked, too, so it’s not just me reacting to medical speak. He meant to demean me in that record. In contrast, the retina specialists, gastroenterologists and orthopedic surgeons I have talked to in order to help care give for my relatives are far more intelligent than almost all of my psychiatrists have been. I’ve had some psychiatrists that appeared to be unable to read graphs. Of course, not everybody is good at reading graphs, but a doctor?? That’s how data is presented to them! I luck out and find psychiatrists who were science majors before going into medicine, so they don’t get confused when I graph something out and they don’t make fun of my vocabulary, either.
The THIRD way it’s different in mental health – there is a high concentration of people more messed up than I am who are providing care. By messed up, I don’t mean have a mental health diagnosis. I mean that some act their symptoms out on me or others, or they tell me all about THEIR problems (on and on and on, in what is probably a professional violation) when i am the patient and so on. One of my psychiatrists did say that many folks go into psychiatry so they can prove to themselves that they are sitting on the non-crazy side of the desk, and I think that doctor was right. Which that doctor did have a diagnosis of bipolar, but was always 100% appropriate. My therapist says there are a lot of people who don’t belong counseling, either. Yes, there are crooked cardiologists and incompetent surgeons, but I really doubt it’s at the level of the messed up people in mental health treatment.
Ok then there are the strip searches (they didn’t do them 20 years ago, why now?) the coercion, putting holds on people who came in voluntarily, treatment nowadays is drugs drugs and more drugs and no therapy or teaching meditation or anything anymore and so on.
I have one foot in the psychiatric survivor camp, but I still don’t like the term, and I recognize psychiatrists are trying to help. A few psychiatrists have protected me and have said that there are other psychiatrists who abuse their power and commit people inappropriately etc. So this is NOT a rare problem – plenty of psychaitrists are upset about patients being abused, and they think it’s really common.
I don’t care much for the term ‘psychiatric survivor’ either, because it still perpetuates a degree of stigma against those who have had to access mental health services for whatever reason. A term I like even less than that is ‘consumer-survivor’, because it’s a politically correct attempt to label and identify people who use mental health services. The unwritten, unspoken suggestion in the label is that people who have mental problems only consume resources and don’t contribute anything after they have survived whatever problem they had in the first place. ‘Survivor’ is also a loaded term, since it implies that everyone who has a mental health issue is necessarily suicidal, thus further maintaining the problem of stigma.
If we lived in a world where no stigma was attached to having mental health issues, then we could well afford to call a spade a spade and say someone is a ‘former psychiatric patient’, or a ‘mental health patient’.
Had we been discussing the treatment of a patient of let’s say with- agoraphobia, fear of spiders, or fear of public speaking , then yes, psychiatrists, definately have patients that are “survivors.” Many are- cured. Their problems were solved by a seemingly knowledgeable and patient psychiatrist . This, imo–is a ‘psychiatric survivor’.
Psychiatrists offices are filled to the brim with lonely, scared and sick people who just want to see the ass that polishes his throne- and for 15 minutes to an hour, why they get to speak to them! They get that ‘fix’, to hold them until the next episode, or visit. They still regard p-docs as gods of sorts. ESPECIALLY psychiatrists. And the people wait, and wait, and wait. The visit alone can make a sick person feel better, many times with solely by it’s placebo effects. Tomato/tomahto, some p-docs work for you- some don’t.
As far as “cancer survivors” go, no- we all know better.
I believe it’s more like the “cancer reprieved”. One lone node can continue on to destroy you in the end. Or a new one can ‘pop up’ later on.
‘Bipolar survivor’ is an oxymoron. One word negates the other. No one survives this hell.
You may catch a ‘Spring break’ or ‘recess’ somewhere in your case, but it’s always there, waiting to rear it’s punishing head. And every case is different. Certainly some similarites, but nevertheless very different.
I walk an emotional tight rope every day of my life, much like Natasha. No net for me. I never know who I’ll be in an hour. I’m a forever hypomanic. My p-doc knows most of the psyche drugs make me sick, so that’s the way it is. We talk recipes a lot, or travel.
As far as the insight or opinions of Natasha, remember, she’s the one who gets hired to publicly speak, she writes this blog, articles, radio interviews on & on. She has more to learn -of course, maybe from you all here. But gently, guys– she’s got ‘it ‘too.
xxxoo
Don’t agree.
“don’t agree”…..will–I think this was for me–and sorry, I must have missed it.
Don’t agree on my opinion, or a particular?
Stevie, please let me re-read it and tell you what I disagreed with. It was awhile ago. Thanks, will
If someone used force on me, and they were wrong, I am a survivor.
Can you explain how anyone with an understanding of English would consider my use of terminology silly?
You seem to admit that just because they (psychiatrists) mean to help doesn’t mean sometimes they do horrible, horrible wrongs.
People who have experienced horrible wrongs frequently use the word survivor.
Some people spend their lives under the force of the system, begging for the psychiatric system to stop the whole time.
Those people probably shouldn’t be called survivors, because they never get out.
What would you call them, Natasha? What would you call one actually harmed by psychiatrists against their will, if not a survivor?
I just think you should change the title, at least first. Psychiatric survivor sounds to virtually anyone not familiar, including me who has experienced it and even made a previous mistake here after just reading something about it. When you say psychiatric survivor it sounds like you survived an illness and not mistreatment from one. If you say you are a cancer survivor it sounds like you survived cancer, not cancer treatment. Am I just totally confused here or something. Did you have an illness at all, did you survive it but not the treatment or what. It all seems to be all over the place. As I’ve also said previously in moat cases no no really survives anything. They deal with it, treat it, handle it etc. Surviving something just sounds as if you had a short one time fight with something that will never return again and if something similar comes. You should relabel it and re-survive it I guess. I guess it’s not a terrible terrible way to say it but if choosing I would go for a different term. Though when you say psychiatric survivor it does sound like you survived a particular psychiatric illness regardless of weather you believe they exist or not. If you wish to change the terminology that fine also, but making other people, if not just a few understand your goal or pt. may make it happen. I don’t think your going to achieve anything this way. I may be wrong? W.N.
There is a space in between being antipsychiatry and being a psychiatric survivor. I’d never be antioncology or antipsychiatry.
I believe it’s incredibly arrogant to dismiss a field of study.
However, I am a psychiatric survivor.
You would be too if you spent eight years under treatment against your will based on a lie that your treatment professionals knew was a lie but used it to secure you treatment anyways.
A cancer patient can refuse chemotherapy. A psychiatric patient can’t, because someone will find a way to override their will.
That’s why I’m a survivor of psychiatry.
I don’t oppose the field of study. I oppose the face people in that field can take my human and civil rights away.
To oppose the term “Psychiatric Survivor” is to:
1) Deny my civil rights were trampled, or
2) To suggest I didn’t need those rights anyways.
That’s the difference.
Natasha – You may dislike the term, but it has existed for a long time. It doesn’t require your approval. Also, as I’m assuming you are “a rational, thinking, intelligent human being with a full grasp of the English language and psychiatric system,” you should at least recognize a lot of survivors are not patients, and have not been for years, even decades. Perhaps “patients and ex-patients” would be more inclusive, if you simply can not stand survivors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatric_survivors_movement
Herpes has existed a long time. I would prefer not to have it. She doesn’t need approval by you or anyone to dislike the term. I guess you assume she is irrational, unthinking,stupid,who doesn’t understand the kings English or any grasp of psychiatry. I would suggest that a large number of “survivors” are only for a short period of time then cease to be in terms of in the grasp of the illness again. Maybe most? I am a survivor of Bi-polar in the same way as I am a non-smoker. For about a week at a time. Why would any survivor be a patient. If I survive cancer why do I still need chemo? Why so angry. She dislikes the language, not people. You seem to have a bug up your a– in a bugless world.
nice to know that you are open-minded and respectful of all and their opinions
course, it is your blog and you can be as one-sided as the best – or worst – of them
unless it is a medical doctor diagnosing (course, that can change depending on which doc you talk to – cause it’s all based on talk by patient and/or witness by others) and only a MD prescribing a chemically created chemical… is it truly legit, huh?
ya know… there are countries out there in the world for who have no diagnosis of mental illness or means in which to treat. I get that many may still be in the thinking world of : spirits or demons or what have you…. but, even in some developing countries that may actually kind of recognize mental illness… still, no genuine medical means of detecting and diagnosing any specific “mental” malady.
there are meds though… oh Gosh darn yes, there are meds… a plethora of meds abounding and yes, some of them do actually do something… good or bad, positive or negative, they do.. do.. something
I mean they are chemically created within a lab to do…. well… alter the brain/body’s chemistry. It is what they are created for, after all
Vitamins and minerals do the same. They alter the brain/body’s chemistry.
Illicit and illegal substances do the same. They alter the brain/body’s chemistry.
Everyone that suffers with a form of mental illness, be what it may be… suffers. No denying it.
Medical doctors, as a whole, have the tendency to dismiss those with mental illness who present with perhaps genuine medical issues… due to the mental illness… especially when their medical based diagnostic tests show nothing generating said medical issue… the tests that they use to diagnose medical issues… with
Granted; the medical tests could be flawed and often what is high for one is too low for another or one may still have a medical issue but is not reading anything beyond “normal”. Be that as it may; it’s still a legit consensual diagnostic tool to diagnose medical issues…. there are none, yet, for mental.
I’ve struggled with MI for 40+ years and I do so hope that within my lifetime; a medical diagnostic criteria would be found to specifically diagnose a mental illness as such… instead of what does appear as “buck shot” with the psychiatric community as to diagnosis and treatment…
I mean seriously, I haven’t come across a psychiatric practitioner who used a single diagnostic tool to diagnose me outside of their understanding and knowledge of said symptomatology (in a book) presented by way of me verbalizing what ills me at the time…. and to have a therapist argue with a psychiatrist as to my diagnosis, time and again…. and to witness several psychiatric practitioners, with the DSM opened upon a desk, and deliberate what diagnosis to actually diagnose a patient with cause one noted such and such symptom the patient reported and another noted another such and such symptom that offset the first perceived diagnosis….
and yes…. not all MDs are the same, not all therapists are the same…. there are good docs and there are bad docs…. the paper on the wall doesn’t denote which are which, yet they – who pass – get one
You’ll find no one more critical I and I think Natasha does a fine job. Not exactly how I would do it but pretty close. As the test you are correct. Ever have the Dexamethasone(sp.) suppresion test? It was actually done on my first hospitalization in about 1988 right after college. By a psychologist who forgot all he took at University in the science area was intro to the biological sciences for business students or something like that. I tested not depressed and this mor– ( self-censorship) one of Natasha’s rules I firmly disagree with. Therefore this gut looked at me as if I were pulling some type of scam at the highest level. What he thought I had to gain I haven’t a clue, from faking depression. He acted as if he the newest diagnostic tool of the century to prove who was and wasn’t depressed. This guy was for certain better off working at the local manure factory, but I’m guessing he would have stunk up the product too much. Trying not to be biased I am saying this all before seeing if Natasha censored my latest comment. Maybe my voice will change. Anybody having this blog substantially slowing their computer? It seems to eat up far to much more of my CPU then it should. Is it just me.
Hysterical. Post about dismissing those harmed by psychiatry…. and glaringly, blatantly, in “laughing on the way ot cash pharma” check… dismisses the problem of the said group.
There is no “oncology survivors”, because the misdiagnosis is less common in oncology (and nobody will tell you that “thinking you don’t have cancer is symptom of having cancer” (aka anosognosia of mental health. Catch 22 pretty much).
How many people been forcibly treated for cancer? How many cancer patients gotten cancer from cancer treatment (aka suicidality and depression caused by anti-depressant meds).,
***But these stories should always be tempered by rational thought and an understanding that for every horror show there is a miracle.***
Oh really? But you aren’t dismissive in the least. Did the miracle occur to YOU? Wait, probably not based on your posts.
Go dismiss away. Dismissing anti-psychiatry will not be your medical and medical only treatment work anymore than it is now. Dismssing people who have been harmed by psychiatry will not make you better. Many of the “antipsychiatry” people whom you so gleefully dismiss managed to get better. Outside of psychiatry. Maybe it is way for some. Why dissmiss it?
Venus, you seem to have been reincarnated along with Bradley and company from the fraudulent True Hope Company. If you aren’t connected please forgive me. You make a very good pt. that I strongly agree with though. In the mental health field for means of incarceration (they use the term hospitalization) many healthy individuals are introduced here due to political, family, legal and other disputes. This is a very common tactic and used very effectively against those mentally ill individuals who in one way or another try to stick up for themselves and their rights are then forcefully injected with medication usually some extremely and very often contraindicated drug (as in stretching off label prescribing to the very limit of what it was intended for, the method formally known as Chemical Straight Jacketing. Not that you wont get the actual physical straight jacket as these things for an obedient corrupt physician are normally in it for the cheap thrills, but mostly the money. As a general rule these Doctors have had a hard time earning a living in legitimate practice as being obnoxious to patients in private practice doesn’t usually lead to repeat customers (Patients) then they go the forced patients route. This is normally done to those who have committed no crimes but the legal system hopes to punish in some way. Many may just be suicidal. We all know here how the rule goes. If you are too ill to admit you are sick then you are sick. As well, if you admit you are sick you are sick. Either way you loose. These absurd laws are actually the legal gold standard in most of the U.S. and other places. The Doctors involved in these cases are without question scum and do far more harm then good. Especially those incarcerated (hospitalized!!!). These Doctors that run these modern day houses of horrors. There seem to be quite a few in the Philadelphia area. These individuals and their compliant staff as a whole deserve nothing better for themselves then to be shot up with huge doses of an atypical anti-psychotic that produces the most absolutely horrible and unrelenting non-stop case of Akathisia in them individually (Various drugs must be tested on each Doctor to determine which one causes the most discomfort along with the withholding of pain medicine for recent surgery and a spinal deformity as in my case. If no such pain exists upon admission, then say a few blows to the Doctors knee caps with a Louisville Slugger(wooden model) would in short order solve that problem. To mimic the withholding and sudden return of unbearable anxiety these Doctors routinely inflict upon there new patients. I suggest this. There is drug of which I Know but don’t know where to obtain buy would try that direcly does after GABA and is thought to induce the worst anxiety a human is able to experience, I’m guessing the U.S. Military is using it in Cuba and it’s secret military prison throughout the word. If unable to obtain the tried and true method of creating an addiction to benzodiazepines by administering very large doses for an extended period of time then withdrawing them. This will simulate what they do to people admitted with severe anxiety problems and abruptly denies any on admission. This is done routinely as it was done to me in these places. Lastly, After that a month or two in solitary confinement (Quite room or temporary isolation) these poor excuses for wasted human flesh label it when they or their families aren’t in these conditions, but when others are. Then we are in business and close solving a problem the gov. supports everyday in the U.S. torture of the mentally ill in psychiatric hospitals to those who speak out publicly and for other known or unknown dirty reasons. I am not sure how to easy mimic severe depression or other severe mental illnesses that well, but this at least a good starting point.
There is no proof for any of the “disorders” in the DSM Robin and, believe it or not, there are a LOT of people who have been damaged by psychiatry.
It is nice to see you have learnt their trick to always blame the patient (victim).
First of all I hate the term “survivor” in any sense. It denotes, well, surviving instead of living. To me it is taking the stand of weakness/victimization versus strength and growth. But many people prefer labels so this is just my opinion.
I’ve experienced much dismissiveness in many areas of the medical establishment and understand that for many, psychiatry has been a bad experience. Fortunately for me I have an amazing psychiatrist who actually takes me at my word and makes an effort to make my life livable. My experience with dismissiveness has been with ERs and my (now former) primary care doctor “because” of my mental illness. They just ignored what I said telling me whatever I was complaining about was in my head until far down the road they saw the evidence of damage like disintegrating cartilage in my knees (previously dismissed as being in my head), arthritis due to bone structure (dismissed as just complaining) and so forth.
I’ve only just discovered your blog and am looking forward to following your articles.
I personally think you are spot on with this article.
Never personally though much about the term Survivor other then it always made me think because of Susan Komen somehow those with breast cancer were more deserving and “Special” then those with other types of cancer, or any other disease or sickness for that matter. It seemed that when taking my father for cancer chemotherapy the entire oncology wing of the hospital was decorated with pink ribbons people wearing t-shirts for breast cancer survivors, etc. On whatever special day it was about two months before my father died of this not as worthy cancer they were even king enough to give my father an xl t-shirt (at this pt. he went from about 260 lb.solid muscular man 6’2′ or so to a shrinking six feet (how that happens don’t have a clue) 145 or so pound man. He indeed wasn’t a survivor as well as I suppose so many of the women and men with breast cancer weren’t. Isn’t saying your a survivor somehow supernaturally jinxing yourself to not recover or get the disease again. I found all the hooplah a big disturbing especially for the actual people with cancer who were very sick and not in the mood for runs, t-shirts, balloons etc. They just wanted their chemo and to get the hell out of there and go home and lay down and maybe be with their loved ones for a while. All because of this I do not at all like the word. Mostly because none of us do and no one here gets out alive.
No, there are no “oncology survivors,” but there are cancer survivors, so perhaps yours is not the best analogy.
The problem with psychiatry is that it lacks a great deal of science, though its practitioners attempt to add specious window dressing such as the “chemical imbalance theory,” which is now being disowned by its very own leaders. This is a profession in search of science — and it has not progressed much at all over the last century.
So is there such thing as a “psychiatric survivor”? Not in the sense of a “cancer survivor.” But there are many who would definitely feel harmed by the “therapies” (ECT, psychosurgery, neuroleptic drugs, etc.) practiced by many in the profession. No doubt they would feel they survived psychiatry the same way a soldier might survive the a war.
Yes,there are good and bad ppl in any profession,so why eliminate psychiatrists from that group?
Excellent point.
Yes,I’m sure the good,bad,the whatever times,we’ve all endured them.
But,I feel psychiatry has been/ is very much in it’s infancy too.
Unfortunately,many have pompous God like complexes,in my opinion,more so than other specialists.
The harsh reality is they make mistakes…what they seem to be oblivious to ( some,not all) is these errors can can
adversely effect lives.
That’s why I believe you are your own best advocate,in order to communicate w a professional you have to remain
In a logical state,leave the emotion out of it.
I believe that’s when change occurs.
Though we are all different individuals…..you have to find the key for yourself.
The system is indeed exceptionally flawed,not enough Drs here for the number of sick individuals,not enough beds in the hospital….
So,you advocate for your own health to the best of your ability,realize that’s how it is,
Try your best,& at the end of the day look at yourself in the mirror & say I won.
As I’m here,alive and intact .
I survived.
I’ve survived the worst as well.
There’s hope for all of us with each breath we take.
:-)
Natasha,
While I Believe that Psychiatry has it’s place, I also feel very strongly that Psychiatrists still have far too much power, and that the system is therefore open to abuse. Far too mich for my liking, infact. Don’t get me wrong, I rradily agknowledge that their are many very good Psychiatrists out there, who use these powers only sparingly, and who geniunly care about their patients and said peoples welfare. The counter weight to this however is that their are also many in who abuse their often Semi-Judicial powers, and whom seem to care little for their patients. In addition, even among good Psychiatrists, there seems to be little knowledge of alyernative treatments, which I think is a real shame, and put down to the fact that this often neglected in their training. It is for these reasons, that while am not anti-Psychiatry, I do believe that Mental Health services in most countries, imcluding in the West, require serious Liberal minded reform.
These, “alternative treatments” are in their training and they are written off as they should be just like blood letting for depression is. It as well as vitamins, prayer etc. have been proven to do nothing. Those in the U.S. with M.D. or D.O. degrees are highly educated in things that work and don’t work. Among those things that don’t work are vitamin therapy(especially from well known criminals),religions of various types and a whole list of other thinks. This is why they don’t try these alternative therapies (they aren’t that, they are therapies like any others) these therapies are just ones that are known to not work. Period. Vitamin-C while talking to GED graduates on the phone about sexual problems and also hawking Vitamin-E doesn’t improve or cure depression, Bi-Polar etc. It does noting and the professionals know it and it isn’t tried because it doesn’t work. See the difference. Professional vs. Quack. Understand. Alternative = things that don’t work being pushed by fools or thieves. The end.
Your blog helps me tremendiously!
Thanks for all the advice, keep up the outstandig work!
When I first read the term “physciatric survivor” in your post I thought how ludicrous it sounded. But, I have read many stories about what patients endure at the hands of phsychiatrists, and I can understand why the term was coined. I think the term survivor implies that a wrong was commited against someone and they overcame it.
With a complete understanding of your well made point, I don’t feel like I’m a psychiatric survivor, but I am a survivor.
I fortunately have a great doctor, one that I’ve had from the beginning 10 years ago.
I always enjoy the insightful views expressed in your blog, but maybe if you step back and look at the big picture, and some of the other opinions (some harsh) patients have posted, you may feel diferently.
wow, attacked for your onesided walk down the middle of the road. if i could as easily kill myself… laughing…out of only one side of my mouth! @ buzz honda
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will, youre right BUT WHY “EXCEPT”…did you miss something maybe? like why she makes the admission of horror stories?
Walt, please read again I think you missed my point as a whole. If not please respond and I’ll explain better. Thank for the response Walt, Will.
After reading again Walt you maybe right, although I still don’t think she made the point clear. Maybe we just read it in a different way. Will.
I usually think your pretty right but sorry your just as one sided as the rest of them ?
Agree, except for one important. pt. I don’t think psychiatry helps anywhere as many people it has been claimed to and certainly to the degree to which it does help. As to the logical fallacy it is certainly one of the most commonly employed attempt to win one over to ones side of an argument. For instance let us say a vitamin company wishes to find new customers and it uses either real or made up testimony individual to increase it’s profits. This would be a common way to use this logical fallacy.
As usual, very good points, Natasha. I think that there are, however, some glaring and very fixable holes in the mental health system that need urgent attention. These holes needlessly create anguish for patients, and therefore I feel psychiatry is one of the less successful branches of medicine. The fact that it is in its infancy is not sufficient excuse for me, I’m afraid.
You look like Judd Hirsch.
Nice balanced commentary Natasha. My observation is that many people who frame the psychiatric system that way are using it as a focal point/punching bag for their own grief, frustration and loss related to their diagnosis.
Dear Natasha,
As usual, your thoughts, points and writings are well taken and to the point.
Your blogging is outstanding in my opinion.
Sincerely,
Herb
http://www.vnstherapy-herb.blogspot.com
http://www.vnstherapy.wordpress.com