I think everyone with bipolar disorder, or any other mental illness, has their own personal list of annoying things people have said to them and about them. I’ve listed my 10 least favorite things to say to a person with bipolar disorder, plus a bonus #11. #11 is just my absolute least favorite.
Worst Thing to Say to a Person with a Mental Illness – We Create Our Own Reality
We create our own reality. This is one of my most hated sentences in the English language. This sentence screams of middle-class-real-problemless-spoiled-rich-person. Yes, undoubtedly people who have homes and families and health and happiness can make their own reality. They can fix the issues they have, like leaky pipes, and not be upset when the paperboy misses their front porch. I have no doubt this is possible.
But give me a fucking break.
People Do Not Create Their Own Reality
People born into generations of poverty, not so much creating their own reality. People born with fetal alcohol syndrome, not so much creating their reality. People dying of starvation, not so much creating their own reality.
And sick people, not really capable of creating their own reality.
This is the Worst Thing to Say to Someone Sick
People with cancer, people with seizures, people with no legs, people with a mental illness – these people don’t get to pick – or create – their realities.
OK, so you’re saying to me, “but you can always change how you look at life.”
See, again, I’m going to have to say, give me a fucking break.
There is Only So Great a Life in Pain Can Look
Change how you look at your life? Um. Sort of. Cancer person still dies, person with seizures still has seizures, paraplegics still have no legs, and people with a mental illness still have a sick brain. We’re still fucked. We’re still in pain. There is no pleasant spin you can put on wanting to kill yourself all day.
And in closing, I would just like to say, I dare anyone to tell a starving child in Africa that they are making their own reality and they could change it if they really wanted to. I fucking dare you. Because that’s what you’re telling me every time you say my brain isn’t sick. And I can tell you, it’s the worst damn thing to say.
Comparing your selfish bipolar “disorder” to actual cancer, shameful!
Maybe them discriminate republican white trash haters are right. Us “nutcases” or “retards” create are own reality and it’s our fault that were not better than them and were just feeling sorry for ourselves. That’s not true but to them it is, so let the bitches have their way, but it sure does feel good living off their tax dollars. I’m glad they work their fingers to the bone to give us “retards” a free Living, they deserve to pay and as long as we stand on the same grounds as them, they’ll continue to pay. There’s a price to ignorance, so get your asses to work so u can pay for our medication. Cuz if you don’t, u never know, us retards could go crazy, take over, and put u in cages like u wished we were
How about what a bipolar says to others? Which by the way, most of the time is quite rude. Others who are not bipolar do have feelings and these people with their so called mental illnesses have no regards to them. We put up with your crap for years after years, always afraid to hurt your damn feelings but you do it so freely. If we say anything you do everything in your power to jeopardize our lives and “try” to commit suicide just so you can impose guilt on us and have us on an even ticker string. I am sick and tired of bipolars not able to deal with your damn issues yourselves. It’s simply a sign of immaturity, you control freaks!
Aren’t you just a wonderful human being.
Wow that’s exactly how i feel dealing with a bipolar person.
You are so uneducated!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Veri,
What you say makes sense. I think people with Bipolar Disorder and other mental illness agree with you, in a way. We all live in a world where we are raised, rightly I think, to be considerate and work hard. People with Bipolar Disorder live in the same world, and were raised with the same values. I’m usually the first person every morning and the last every evening to condemn myself for not having contributed more. There are times I can’t take care of myself – at least not very well.
There is also a learned helplessness. Most people work hard to achieve. They win, and feel fulfilled. A person with Bipolar works, and achieves, and feels just as bad as before. People who work hard have the expectation they will be respected for their accomplishments. A person with Bipolar has usually experienced at least once, if not many times, their status and respect being lost as a result of their actions while ill. If that happens too many times, there is no reward to contributing.
Some people, depending on their circumstances, perceive their success as being the result of their hard work. They perceive that they work hard because they are moral people, and working considerately is the right thing to do. People ought to be productive.
That’s an illusion. Most people are successful more because of circumstance. A white person is more successful, a man, an intelligent person, a mentally normative person – these people are more successful because chance gave them an advantage.
Playing a game you win is easy. It’s fulfilling. Doing what you’re good at isn’t moral. No one is especially righteous for getting adequate results expending moderate effort. It’s possible you’re on the path to winning Nobel Prize, or something like that. If you’re living an average sort of life, that’s very respectable. But, it’s hardly a place from which to get preachy.
Some people do not have the advantage of thinking in a normative way. That is inconvenient for them, and also inconvenient for people around them. Everyone must protect their own life and stability first. If a specific person in your life is making your life too hard, you need to leave them behind. If it comes down to them or you, you have to pick you.
But, if you’re complaining because this person is a “burden” on you, by what right? What do you have, exactly, even the simple fact of your existence, which you deserve by merit? What have you done, to deserve your life? What have you done, to deserve any advantage you have, including the advantage of simply being able to think clearly?
Nothing. All those things are given by chance, or by Providence. You are the steward of your time and energy, not it’s owner. It’s not your property. Other people are not around based on your convenience and inconvenience. Grow up. Find a moral center. Act like a human being.
If you’ve had a bad experience with an ill person, I’m sorry. It can be very hard. But pease don’t talk about “Bipolars” in general.
[moderated]
Go deal with your obvious personal issues first, [moderated]. Also, what the hell does “ticker string” even mean? LOL
“Do it for the kids.” I could choke a b**ch, seriously. I’m pretty placid, but that puts a knot it my knickers.
This thread is very interesting as I’ve always wondered what people say to bi-p people to with children. Gotta say I see few more appealing alternatives.
I hope today (hell, all days!) is a good one for all of you. :)
Children who grew up in Africa made it their business to come into the United States in order to find opportunity. I have met so many who are succeeding at life and doing well now. They’re employed, drive a nice car, and are content with life. Good! They deserve that! I’m just grasping at the idea that this article is coming from a place of a troubled teenaged mind that cannot focus on the desire to break out of stereotypes. If you did, I would not be seeing this. It’s healthy to express yourself as you need to. Just don’t falsely allow others’ problems to become yours when you already have the potential to live a good life too.
i’m 16 and i have cronophobia i fear time because i don’t know if ill make it in this crazy world and i know at some point every one i love will leave me or die at some point i’m also depressed know one knows that i am this way
I do not like it either when people say reality is what you make it or suck it up, because I remember before I had my illness I was strong minded and thought my thinking was factual but when I got sick with pschizoaffective disorder reality seemed less factual and more random, until you get a mental illness you do not know how the brain can effect you so strongly and we think if we have a strong brain we are strong and when you get sick you get scared of the possibilities of the things that are worse that can happen to you, it is almost like dealing with the fact that we are mortal but when your not mentaly ill you deal with your fake reality that nothing bad will happen to us when in fact in the real world if you live long enough bad things really do happen to good people.
“Get yourself together!” repeatedly coming out of my brother’s (big) mouth.
Of course that was before he crashed and burnt badly. Never heard that idiocy ever again.
I was diagnosed with Bipolar 1/ anxiety (agoraphobia) and ADD May of 2013. I worked in law enforcement for 6.5 years. Once I was labeled with having a mental illness I had to give up my job. My only other job I had in my life was a Child care provider for 15yrs . I was covered under long term disability through my job until my psychiatric put in his notes that i was feeling better and I was normal. I lost my benifits of course and had to turn to the welfare program to assist me with medical and food. Just more depressing and feeling worthless. I went to a new psychiatric she says she doesn’t see Bipolar 1 at all but see’s the anxiety and severe depression. She still prescribed the Bipolar meds. I have been up for 3 days, the last 30 days I have been on the couch sleeping and not wanting to do anything but watch simple shows, even cartoons (I’m 52 yrs old). I dont know what I’m trying to put out here but feel like i was misdiagnosed now or this new one wants to see for herself. But either way I have lost my good paying job that supported my family. The new Psychiatric says I can no longer watch children at home. Sorry for my grammar. I’m just so lost now. I keep getting a feeling there’s something wrong like the feeling you get when your kid comes home late. I just don’t know what it is about and how to make it go away. Thanks for reading.
would also like to say Sorry in advance that I used the word labeled. im just have a hard time accepting my illness and angry over what has happened to my life. I have heard all kinds of rude comments from my In-laws. Just get up off your feet and keep going you’re to young to give up on your life. Maybe I have. Sorry once again for the word I offended my own self. :)
I did create my own reality! And I wish a family member or friend or stranger SAID SOMETHING SOONER. In my latest “adventure” – sky high mania – turned into psychotic rift, which was seemingly benign at first as I decided I ought to write a “book,” and figure out all my problems for myself… the problem with multiple realities, is that I started to believe in the damned book, and not one member of my family recognized that I was having a huge problem. They ignored it, I started writing about “the lottery” believing that I was about to win… the numbers were alive. Dancing, patterns, patterns, everywhere. Anyways, to make a long story short, somebody broke my reality, this asshole said something about reality (challenging my reality) and then I started to think.. “wtf, wait a minute…” wtf have I been writing this book for? I used to have GOALS, AMBITIONS, but wtf have I been doing for the last 4 months? Writing this crazy shit. Indeed, people can be annoying, BUT THE MORAL of my story – if this “asshole” didn’t trip me up while in this hallucination, this delusional break.. if that ONE asshole didn’t say anything. I could have “won the lottery” — if you understand what I was writing about and deluding myself into believing. So really there is no black or white thing to tell somebody who suffers from a mental disease, because those shitty words that people sometimes say. Those shitty words are powerful, because SOMETIMES those shitty WORDS can save your life, by reminding me to get back INTO REALITY, because I DIDN’T WANT To DIE. That book was insane. I gotta get back on my meds, because 2014 was the year. Good thing somebody said something, because my reality broke, just in the nick of time. Merry X-mas.
…One more to add…one of my favorites…
I have a service dog, her name is Capri She is smart, beautiful and sweet. I was at the DMV Tuesday getting my picture taken. At the counter the nice lady told me I would have an hours wait (short version) and I asked her if I could go outside and wait with my dogs, take them for a walk, and she said yes, sure. Then asked for my cell number and said they would call me when it was time. THEN she looked right at me and with a straight face said to me, “You have a dog with you?” “yes, her name is Capri” and I smiled down at her, then looked up at the lady and said, “She is my service dog”. With a dead-pan face, she asked, “Are you disabled?” I always want to give a cocky answer LOL Yes, yes I am and have to carry the paper work around with me to prove, a nv thing.
Then said something about ada as I went outside. It took 3-hours.
When they see me with my dog and she is -working-, more then you would think ask, “Are you disabled?”. Not cool and Top 5 pevees for me :-)
I read the comments and tried not to laugh, cry, rage and more. When you read the comments all at once you realize just how much we are the same AND different. I would like to also say thank you Natasha for the spell check, I’m pretty bad at it :-)
I’m 53 Female Divorced two times and separated from my third for 23 years. My idea to NEVER get married again, when he left I told him when he filed for divorce not to let me know, that this was going to be my safety net…Can’t ever get married again if I don’t know I’m divorced LOL and it worked! I was 29 at the time.
As a babe, I was 6-7, I was diagnosed with ADHD and my mom shoved pills down my throat for almost 2-years. Along with a pot of coffee a day (she read in a articular it would help). My mom left for good when I was 12. At 13 I tried to kill myself. I thought my mom was right and no would ever, lone could ever, love me … but I didn’t know how to really do it. At 19 I slit my wrists with the only blade in the house, it was dull and rusty. Then I heard my baby crying and (it took a good 5-minutes) my brain told me not to do it. That my babe would be given to the abusive people who raised me. At 19 I was diagnosed with Bi-polar.
Big Time!
There is SO much more to tell of just that one paragraph, but I will not. I was raised to believe there was NOTHING WRONG WITH ME! Dumb shit dad :-) i’m 22 and gave birth again. I had NO idea ADHD was hereditary other wise I would never had babies! My babe was born with server ADHD You could not even hold him. Breast feeding was a chore, let me tell ya!
Since there is nothing wrong with me there can be nothing wrong with him! My third husband took him to the docs at 3 years of age and put him on meds…not cool! I fought it.
I tried so hard to make everyone around me happy, comfortable, to no avail. At 29 I had had enough and walked into a mental health clinic (next town over) in a rage and demand to be fixed. Yaaa, they were a bit afraid of me. They sent someone out front to calm me…brave man to have come that close to me LOL
I was the most loving, kind, understanding, patient, smart and funny women and I was pure evil, violent with horrible rages who blacked-out during them. I hated living and hated me for not being normal (I guess I still do some what) I wanted sooo much to be normal, l like everyone else had tried SOOO hard to be like them…you all know who ‘They’ and ‘them’ are…
Oh did I mentioned after the 13 year old’s attempt failed she dove into alcohol as her choice for ‘self’- medication” This lasted until age 25 then I tried quitting for good and did good for 3 years (long story) . When I started again it was more ‘binge drinking’. Now? LOL been there, done that, soo over it! Maybe a 6-pack a year.
Mr. Sell ( my councilor) also said I had some “personality disorder” :-/ Excuse me? Ya, I read the book he gave me about it back then. All I know is how I felt…Why does everyone want to put a label on me? Why does everyone insist I’m broken? In my rage I told him to fix me, and with NO MEDS AND NO HOSPITAL. I needed tools. I needed information. I needed to be believed. I just needed to be like everyone else so I could fit in.
I chose to see him, just like I chose to quite drinking. I saw him for 3-31/2 years and he helped me sooo much and without meds. But I’ll tell you, Sooo not easy; very very very hard. But because of my mom I didn’t even like to take aspirin.
Now I am 40. Today is my birthday and I’m flying to Mexico! None of my relationships have lasted, but I still LIVE my life!
I’m 47 now and it is Jan. and the town has talked me into retiring now and opening up my Thrift shop :-) I’m in heaven! To a point. I’m with a alcoholic and have been for 5 years. We try to help each other. It doesn’t always work out. I still struggle with feeling EVERYTHING and NOTHING at the same time. But, most of the “bad” stuff I can control, or lock me in the bathroom for a time-out. I had worked sooooo hard to get to where I was. I had learned to be honest with me and others about who I was: Nikki with a side dish of different. My whole life I saw everything “outside the box” and I had finally learned to like me for who I was :-)
November, same year, 4/5-days before my birthday. A drunk driver ran a stop sign and thought it would be fun if I T-boned him. Not fun, not fun at all! I live in a state that really doesn’t care about it’s “People”, it’s called Nevada. They like everyone to be drunk so they can separate their money from them…short version…
Spinal injure and head injure (my driver side window). Amnesia for a couple of years…fun! And either they are uncomfortable around me and think it is contagious or think I’m faking it! Either way I had a hard time keeping my business going. Feb.5-days before Valentine, my bo left me because I couldn’t take care of him anymore (he told me that summer). I could not take care of myself…bath, eat, cook…there was a lot I couldn’t do. I did not remember my past. They called me “3-second Nikki” because that was as long as I could remember.
Now it is Oct. Almost 1-yr since the car accident. I’ve gone a bit crazy, but no one seems to have noticed. I suck it up. The pain, lots and lots of physical pain. More then any one but the devil could image! But I smile and I suck it up, and I’m now 105 pounds. The pain is so bad it causes constant nauseous, extra saliva (lots of) in the mouth, 24-7. Now it’s the day after Christmas. My (ex) bo kills himself and some of the town blamed me (because I choose not to take him back when he asked this Oct.) and it pushed me over the edge. I sold the store and went home to crazyville.
Now, I did not no I was ADHD lone Bipolar and no one told me. So this next year was Hell on a Roller Coaster. I just didn’t understand why he did it…Well, not true, I think I know why he did it, I just can’t believe he did it! Especially since I made him promise me he would never do that to himself, because it wasn’t just him.
Okay I’ve tried to deal, I really have. Now it’s Sept. and I realize I have rage growing inside of me and go see a shrink (mental health) that I am sooo angry at him for taking his life and breaking his promise. Okay, recap…Sever pain, hurts to breath lone sit…Make my appt. Show up on time (20 minutes early) and they keep me waiting over an hour in the waiting room past my appt. time. Any normal would have been miffed. But I kept it together.
What I thought was going to be a “Safe place” to vent wasn’t. After 20 minutes she sent the guy out of the room to call the police…because I wouldn’t sit down and shut up…she lied to the police woman and said I threaten someones life. Yupe the police woman called here on it, but the shrink informed her SHE had the power not her and told her to put in a mental hospital…It made it oh sooo much worse.
It was only 4-days, but seemed forever. It was really horrible. They took my meds away and gave me Tylenol? No, it didn’t work! A guy there for suicide told me how to get out and home. Tell them what they want to hear. Stop crying, make a friend and smile…a lot! It worked…but, it didn’t solve my original problem now did it?!
I learned from them NOT TO FEEL , not to talk about important issues and push the “happy happy” button inside my head…I’m a bit of a ‘Happy” junkie now…but I still feel nothing. I know longer do Christmas. For one year I walked around believing I’m dead. I must be in predatory, you know, Not good enough for Heaven and not bad enough for Hell. And just did what ever I wanted pretty much. And no one said different. Mania at it’s worse.
So much bad stuff happening that I can’t seem to heal. My son moved in with me (he said to help me. August after the car accident). I had my son leave because he tried to make out with me. I came out of a black out (after mental hospital I had them frequently) hearing my son say “You know you want to, just do it, kiss me.” Oh yeah! Time to leave! Yes this was my babe. Nope, never thought of doing this to him EVER and still don’t want to! It’s been 4-years and I’m still waiting for an apology.
Believe me, this is the short version LOL. My son and I use to be very close and I miss our hikes and such, but he choose alcohol and street drugs and as much as that hurts, it hurts more knowing he will never like himself while dosing himself with what he can get a hold of. It’s hard enough liking ourselves without it.
The voices came back and I didn’t know they lived there, so I thought I was REALLY crazy LOL and laughed all the time. It was very freeing to be that crazy without bars and a cage.
Now I’m 50 and Menopausal…funny word isn’t it…Men O Pause, think they’re trying to tell other men something LOL…and a legal card holder of MMJ (believe it or not, I didn’t do drugs when i was younger or even a youngn’. Didn’t believe in them.) It has helped with my server migraines, nausea and relief for the back spams and it’s natural :-) Not to mention help with sleeping :-) ohhhhh…and with breast cancer. I didn’t lose my boobies like my mom, grandmother, etc. The women in my mothers family don’t seem to keep them.
Now I’m 53…Shocked I made it this far LOL…In the height of my menopause…nasty nasty hot–flashes (my ass, hot-stay for several hours) accompanied by all night night-sweats followed by cold. I’m in awe we’re not sick all the time :-/
So on top of the menopause crappy emotions I get to deal with my loving Bipolar and playful ADHD. Not to mention the elusive personality disorder. Oh and if we get to play the “blame-game”, I blame my mother LMAO
I would love to have a counselor to talk with again. I really do need it. I have been all over the place this year. I tried to remember the tools Mr. Sell gave me, but can’t seem to remember most of them. I don’t like being around people anymore, they scare me, a lot…but, I don’t think I can handle being put in a hospital again. Nope, no I wouldn’t be able to handle it. What does one have to do with the other you may ask? Read above LOL
Knowing I still have 10, 20, 30 even 40 more years to go before I get to die is sometimes really really hard. Do I want to kill myself, No! Do any of us really? No. The pain is just sooo horrible sometimes, it is hard to explain to others how painful sadness can become. I know some of the “others’ mean well, but the words, tone and attitude can really make it worse for us. If I’m REALLY REALLY trying PLEASE don’t yell at me, PLEASE don’t be impatient with me, PLEASE like me just enough to be patient with me.
I am thankful for sites like this were we can talk and know you all feel my tears as I hold them in side. To REALLY know I am NOT ALONE. As we know, moments of tears for us last days, weeks even months, not moments.
And I am doing Christmas this year. It may only be for my two dogs and me, but it’s a start :-) 1961 to 2014 and still going !
The words I hate the most: “Just take it easy” “You’re just not trying hard enough” “Your getting yourself worked up over nothing. CALM DOWN!” or a whispered, ” Whats wrong with her?”
Don’t blame yourself for your ex’s death because he was battling his own demons and I know that people with add or adhd and who are in the autistic spectrum attract eachother and are not even aware of it (it’s a phenomenom) whether they are diagnosed or undiagnosed there is something going on with them as well so more than likely your mother and your father had it to some degree ( the mental disorders) and it was definetly in their genes. Your mom probably had aspergers that would explain the selfish unfeeling behavior…back in the days we didn’t have the technology or knowlegde we have today, a lot of people still fall thru the cracks today being misdiagnosed or undiagnosed and causing so much heartache and damage to others and even themselves. The best thing is when you search for answers and get some clarity at least for yourself…I really feel for you and it all sounds too familiar withing my own family…and the hell with the people who say that life is what you make of it when in reality not everyone has that privalege they just been fortunate enough to not have walk in the shoes of those who have been less fortunate…some people literally have no choice…but to those who have survived it and even to the ones that didn’t and I know are up in heaven, my heart goes out to all…
“the hell with the people who say that life is what you make of it when in reality not everyone has that privalege they just been fortunate enough to not have walk in the shoes of those who have been less fortunate…some people literally have no choice…”
Oh, well said!!!
While I totally agree with this post, I also want to clear something up. Having a mental illness doesn’t give you (or anyone) the right to treat people callously or be reckless with a person’s feelings. If you are bipolar and don’t take care of yourself, then you can’t be with someone else.
I love this. I totally agree.
My family was middle class and abused me sexually, physically and emotionally. I was raped multiple times and life revolves around avoiding reminders of oral sex. I got pregnant following the rapes. I have BPD and MDD as a result of the traumas. Author, please get over yourself, middle class/educated people abuse their children too and do the same horrific fucked up things ‘working class’ people do. You’re just as prejudice as the people who’ve been dismissive towards you
I hate to tell you that you are wrong but honestly life is what you make it, children may not choose to be handicapped or poor but they can also choose how to feel and perceive life. There are plenty of less fortunate people that are happy or eventually change ttheir situation.
I beg to differ … partly. Thinking positively won’t mend a broken spine. Similarly, positive thinking won’t cure Bipolar Disorder. Thinking positively can help one come to terms with having a broken spine, although it surely cannot allow one to live as satisfying life as would be possible with a full working spine. (All the less so for someone like my friend who is in constant and severe pain while her spine crumbles away.)
But there is a most surely a limit to what positive thinking can do for someone with any mental illness because it is inherent in the illness that one’s thinking is affected by it, and usually negatively. Thus, you cannot think your way out of a Bipolar Depression, nor think your way out of a full-blown psychotic mania where you may imagine yourself as being Napoleon or Jesus. It may be possible to think your way out of grief, but not Bipolar Disorder or Schitzophrenia.
Wow people astound me with their opinions. Mental illness is a very hard illness. Educate yourself before making these comments. Otherwise don’t make them. I have a son who has bipolar. I deal with the mood swings all the time. The worst for me and him are the depressive state. People with mental illness do not chose to have this thought pattern. To believe this is ludicris. Who would want to chose to have a mental illness and the issues that come from them? Just change your thought patterns do not happen with people with mental illness. If that were true there would be a lot less suicides. I myself want to be educated because I have mentally ill family members and others I see on a daily basis. Mental illness is a constant battle. With the correct help professionally and with loved ones people can learn to cope with what they have.
We all create our own projection of what we think is reality inside our self. Reality is just a word. It’s meaning as of its classic definition goes far beyond any possible imagination. This projection what we create of that “reality” is nothing we can choose. We do create. If we want or not. Being sane is as much relative as being real. If we accept reality as a concept rather than a reality life becomes less complicated.
If someone says we create our own reality he does not have to be an idiot. He might could have been enlightened as well.
We all have our weak points. No matter what sickness you suffer. There is enough enlightenment for all of us out there. And there are enough souls to share that “reality” with us… No matter how it looks like.
Everyone’s life is limited. It just takes not the same amount of time for each of us to understand.
after spending less then ten minutes with a psychiatrist, his report states that i told him several things that includes being raped, terror trauma rape, and other childhood abuse incidences. I said he has lied, i never told all that….esp.in that short of time. he got them from someone else. My healthcare directive forbids contact with my family for other reasons. Yet, i believe that he did in fact contact my mother. His diagnosis from this short visit is delusional, harmful to self and others. Now all my doctors believe this and act very different to me. The violence was all true, which is why i felt like i was raped again when ….they say prove it..how can i do that? All persons associated with or having knowledge with my issues are dead or long forgotten How can he take my truths and make it so filthy.? the doctor says i must see another psyc immediately to process this information. I said process what? that it took me ten years to seek help with the anxiety and now he has stipped my soul…how can i trust anyone again? And what can i do for the psyc who never talked to me, yet, destroyed me? how do get these lies off my records?
I wish I had some amazing words of wisdom or advice to share with you, but your horrendous situation has me speechless. I suppose you would have some legal redress, but that would probably not be helpful on the emotional level and serve only to add to your distress. I would offer an ear to listen but there is no way to share contacts in this place. All I have to offer is my deep sympathy and fellow-feeling, and hope this time of distress will pass quickly. h x
I am bipolar II and recently diagnosed with thyroid cancer. I feel like a two time loser. I am lucky that papillary thyroid cancer has a high survival rate, but my cancer was stage 3, so there’s a higher chance of recurrence. Feel very angry. Plus I’m muddling through 7 months of menopausal insomnia. Feel like I’m in hell, and people are angry that I am not positive.
I am sooo sorry Marry. I hope this finds you in remission. Oh yes, Bipolar AND menopause is real fun :-/ LOL
The best I can do is, “close your eyes and pretend I am standing there holding you. Keeping you warm and safe while your tears slide down your checks onto my tiny shoulders”.
I am starting Soy and Evening Prim Rose for my hot-stay-all-day-flashes & night sweats, night a sweat, more like a pool, 4 feet round and 3 feet deep LOL Black C. diden’t work for me.
Take care sweetie.
I was was diagnosed with PTSD last fall and started taking Paxil prescribed by my family doctor. The Paxil triggered a psychotic episode and I was admitted in a mental health hospital for a couple of days while the medicine withdrawl was at its worst. (Cold turkey off of Paxil is NOT FUN!)
While I was in the hospital, I saw a psychiatrist for a total of 20 minutes. She diagnosed me with Bipolar Disorder and told my husband this. Now all he does, with any argument, is blame my “mental illness”. This has caused PTSD to go into hyperdrive because I no longer feel like my spouse is a “safe place” to be vulnerable, to let myself heal. I have a bad mood…Bipolar! I am upset by disrespectful children…bipolar! It’s to the point where my children now think of me as crazy, and tell me as much!
Bipolar has become a weapon of mass destruction used against me. I’m not even sure it’s an accurate diagnosis. Even the suggestion of it has caused me to lose all credibility in my family. Not fun.
I’m going to have to respectfully agree/disagree with some of what you wrote. I agree that it is not nice to tell someone that they “create their own reality” in an antagonistic way or as a put down. However I do believe it’s a fact that people with bipolar disorder should NOT be protected from, and be aware of. Should a doctor not tell someone who is sick that they have cancer? No, the doctor should tell them the truth because that IS reality. We shouldn’t tell people who are in poverty or starving children in Africa that it’s their fault and that they created that reality, but we shouldn’t lie and tell them that they are actually very wealthy or have lots of food to eat. I’m sorry but I see no problem with telling the bipolar/emotionally abusive mother of my 2yo son that she is “creating her own reality” when she lashes out at my child for no reason and blames her uncontrollable rage on him! Stating that he’s “out to get her!” when the truth, the REALITY is…well…she’s “creating her own reality”. he’s a 2 year old boy that doesn’t know any better and doesn’t deserve someone screaming and spanking him just because he doesn’t understand or want to use the toilet yet! “A Beautiful Mind” is an amazing movie where a man is told by people who love and support him that he is creating his own reality. Had no one told him this and let him keep living in that alternate reality. It would have led to his demise. However by knowing and accepting this truth he was able to overcome against some pretty amazing odds! I believe that all of you have the ability to overcome! But you can’t do it if i lie to your face and tell you that there’s nothing wrong with what you believe to be real. I’ve had to fight my way back to reality from several different drug addictions, and I never would have made it without the people who genuinely love me telling me I was sick and that I was hiding from reality. Anyway, I wish the best for all of you and yours! Just remember you are NEVER alone! Even when it feels like you have no one, there is always someone who loves you exactly the way He made you! And that love will never go away or even fade no matter what you do or how bipolar you are. You are all children of God and therefore valuable and powerful beyond measure! So nothing, not even being bipolar, can have complete power over you! So don’t let it! I’ll leave you with a quote from Marianne Williamson – ” Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness That most frightens us.
We ask ourselves Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous(, or an overcomer)? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God.
Your playing small Does not serve the world. There’s nothing enlightened about shrinking So that other people won’t feel insecure around you.
We are all meant to shine, As children do. We were born to make manifest The glory of God that is within us.
It’s not just in some of us; It’s in everyone.
And as we let our own light shine, We unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we’re liberated from our own fear, Our presence automatically liberates others
I think the problem is this: Someone with BP (or any other mental illness/condition) who is delusional (e.g. “he’s “out to get” me”), the “reality” they see is not their creation – it’s the illness’s. They do not control what they think is reality – the illness does it. The illness twists how they perceive reality into something else. Contradicting someone with a firm belief in their erroneous view of reality, especially someone who is irrational due to mental illness, it doesn’t help. Indeed, all it usually achieves is to create hostile. It can make them angry and, in some cases, aggressive to violent. A case in point: My brother believes he is fully in control of his out-of-control spending; but when his wife confiscated his plastic credit and debit cards, he flew into a very uncommon (for him) rage and attacked her. Now, this highly intelligent man, who was once a top family and criminal law specialist lawyer, and see it all, he is suddenly taken in by “Nigerian” money scams, e.g. ‘you won a lottery in South Africa… ” “the UK National Lottery…”, sending girls on sex on-line pay-as-you-go sex chat lines (yep, suddenly became obsessed with sex, and spending most of the money on sex chat lines) money “help them escape” their sordid lives, an American lawyer with money to give him from anonymous benefactor, and most recently, a promise of compensation from the Nigerian government for the other Nigerian scams! In his sick state of mind, believes the lot and there is no telling him he’s in error. He just becomes hostile and no one benefits from this. It is best just to play along with his World or, where that isn’t possible (as in the case of his wife) keep well away from him! (In his case, he has not been diagnosed because he’s not seen a psychiatrist … because he thinks everyone else is out-of-step, not him! He believes he is perfectly well and, worryingly, thinks others ought to have Life Insurance because he says they are likely to die before him! So, contradict him will incur his wrath and risk harm; agree with him and where some issues of business need to be done (e.g. we share a sick mother who needs both sons) then we can maintain a working relationship. But as for his wife, she kicked him out of their home after the attack and, since there is no improvement with him after half the year since he was expelled, and since he is not accepting he is ill, then she is considering divorce and starting a new Life without him. What else could she do?
A similar way of dealing with dementia patients is now common: When, say, my mother thinks my Dad (long deceased) is in the nursing home and she’s cross because he’s not come to see her, we don’t tell her , “It can’t be him – he’s dead…” because that distresses her – we play along: “I think he’s working in the office – he’ll be up later …” Because, if she becomes distressed she will stay distressed long after she remembers what it was that upset her in the first place. Now I maintain that mentally ill people can be just as delusional and someone with dementia. Their realities are just as real to them as ours are to us … and me when I’m also in a delusional state!
Does that make sense to you?
Nothing personal, D… you just reminded me of another on my list of “worst things” people say to me: religious platitudes of any stripe. I’m not a believer, so it’s rather like someone telling me that if I clap my hands a sufficient number of times, fairies will come and make everything all better.
I’m a child of my mother and father, whose misfiring brains I inherited. The former is flatly in denial (and annoys the bejeezus out of me with most every “worst thing” that’s been listed here), and the latter has been dead for 25 years. I just don’t have it in me to pretend that there’s some celestial parent and that he/she/it is somehow magically helpful or “cares” about me.
I understand that appeals to religion may make religious people feel better, sometimes (but probably not while in the dark abyss); but for me it’s just one more way of brushing aside my pain with condescending and ultimately meaningless “advice”. It might not even bother me so much if it weren’t common knowledge that I’m an “out,” proud and vocal atheist.
Amen to that! <>
(Harry-the-agnostic)
Yeah, just a side note on why religious platitudes really punch my buttons when someone brings them up in a mental health context. I’ve got a psych degree. It’s just a bachelors, but it’s enough to know that everybody alive is a little bit “crazy” and that they had to define mental illness by making an imaginary line in the sand and defining a list of traits so that the most damaged people would be on the “ill” side of the list, but to keep the percentage of the human race defined as “ill” down to a completely arbitrary small percentage.
Truly, it came down to, “If our definitions are calling more than X% of the human race crazy, we’re doing something wrong. Okay, maybe everybody *is* a little bit crazy, but what we’re trying to do is define out the people who are the *most* ill, so we can study and treat them.”
Oh, yeah, I did have a point in amongst all this getting lost off on a tangent…..
You know all the definitions of delusion, in the psych manuals, that say it doesn’t count as delusional if the magical thinking or irrational belief is “part of an established religion”? Yeah, those are there at least partly because the field of psychology as a science didn’t want to actually get down and dirty with the debate that pretty much all the so-called sane people are crazy too.
But that’s one of the big problems with going bughouse nuts and getting on meds and getting well again. You have to learn to reality test and you learn to do a pretty good job of telling real from not real and sanity from “that’s totally nucking futz.”
And one of the scariest things about getting stable on meds and in your right mind again is realizing how bughouse nuts crazy all the “sane” people are, even though they’re walking around without a diagnosis and don’t maybe even meet the criteria from a diagnosis–maybe they just borrowed their crazy wholesale from somebody else–but they’re crazy as a cat on acid anyway.
It’s frightening to run into the “sane” people being completely nuts and realize these are the people running the world, and the average people in charge of everything. That this is what “sane” is for humanity.
I’m not saying that all religion is BS or that someone’s faith isn’t worthwhile for them or that they don’t, themselves, get something worthwhile out of it. I’m not making metaphysical judgments about what may or may not be out there.
I *am* saying that usually when I, personally, meet someone who starts passing out the religious platitudes it is clear as glass that *that specific person* is completely and wholly delusional. Probably not mentally ill, but that just makes it scary. Passing out religious platitudes is one of the worst things you can say to a recovering mentally ill person because it is not nice to frighten us.
Oh, how do I draw the line between people of faith who are delusional versus people who have something that works for them?
You can have a guy who has a worldview that includes Extra-Terrestrials he communicates with telepathically, and if he admits he doesn’t absolutely know if they really exist or not, it’s just a worldview that he believes makes him stronger and helps him get by in the world, I wouldn’t call that guy delusional, I’d call him a guy with an adaptive coping strategy.
You can have another guy whose worldview includes the ETs he communicates with telepathically, and he is so certain that his ETs really exist that he’s willing to have other people killed or sent to jail over it. I’d consider that guy frighteningly delusional.
Heck, there may be *real* little voices out there for all I know–but the history of humanity is that people have done some pretty awful things listening to them.
I just don’t believe it matters where the little voices you talk to came from, or whether the little voices talk back or not. If your belief in the little voices–self-begotten or adopted–includes that you’re willing to harm others over them, that’s when you scare me.
To bring this back around to the subject of saying religious platitudes to bipolar people, it’s scary and inappropriate because what they’re saying is that the little voices in their head are going to come solve *my* mental illness.
It’s like having the homeless guy walk by you on the street and say, “Oh, you poor pathetic thing!” and press a fiver into your hand.
There’s just nothing you can say to that. You just can’t say, “My mental illness is terrible, and painful, and it needs care so I can function in life and won’t be in horrible pain all the time; but good freaking grief! You’re functional, you’re happy, you can get out of bed every morning and hold a job and get things done, and you’re an absolute lunatic. I hate my life. I’m glad you’re doing okay in spite of being bonkers, but I soooo hate my life.”
Hi JulieC,
I do think it’s a cop-out saying that a person can’t be delusional just because their irrational beliefs are part of an accepted religion. I think, like you say, it’s just because psychology doesn’t want to battle religion, which I understand, but do think is a little weak.
(Of course, really it all comes down to clinical judgement now anyway as to what “accepted” is. If you think you’re Jesus, that’s probably not reasonable whereas if you believe in angels, it might be.)
– Natasha Tracy
Hi D,
I think you’ve missed two central points.
1. People who are psychotic (who suffer from delusions and hallucinations) do _not_ create their own reality, the disease does. And yes, of course they need to know they are sick, but that is not the same thing. And for the record, telling a person who is suffering from psychosis that they are delusional is rarely helpful. For more information on how to correctly handle psychosis, see here: http://www.bcss.org/2006/03/resources/topics-by-audience/family-friends/psychosis-symptoms-and-what-to-do/
2. People who are being told they “create their own reality” are not typically psychotic. They are just mentally ill people. This is even more insulting. When we talk about “creating our own reality” it suggests that these people have created their own disease and their own life circumstance, which is balderdash for people with and without a mental illness. As I said, do children dying of starvation create their own reality when they are unhappy about it? No, of course they don’t, and neither do we.
– Natasha Tracy
“You create your own reality” is an example of magical thinking. Sometimes the person doing it has a diagnosis, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes the person qualifies for a diagnosis, sometimes they don’t.
It goes back to “everybody is a little bit crazy.”
Some people took real research about things like adopting a physical facial expression of an emotion creating some of that emotion (in research subjects, none of whom were undergoing an extreme mood disturbance episode from a mood disorder).
They took various other studies of things like choice where making an irrevocable choice of one item over another makes you like the one you picked better.
They took various other studies of human perception, they read them in a very biased way, and they cobbled it together into a philosophy that wishful thinking makes the world go round and misfortune is the result of jinxing yourself by Thinking Bad Thoughts.
They misread science to get a rephrased fancy-sounding re-statement of a life philosophy that amounts to the inner-child, natural superstition worldview: “When You Wish Upon A Star” and “Don’t Step On A Crack!”
“You Create Your Own Reality” is, at its core, abandoning adulthood. It’s abandoning the adult responsibility to look at the world in terms of cause and effect and cope as a volitional actor in that world where things have causes, and climbing back into childhood. In childhood, the fender on the car is crumpled not because a particular driver ran a red light while another particular driver was not driving defensively, but because traffic was bad and the car got wrecked. Somebody stepped on a crack that morning. Somebody didn’t make the right wish over their morning Wheaties. Who? We don’t know. Somebody. Maybe several somebodies. Maybe the community just didn’t wish traffic positive enough that morning.
This is so very well put. Thank you
Worst thing to say: “Hello”, it caused me 27+ years of grief.
I have recently added this webpage to my feed reader, great stuff. Can’t get enough!
I needed to read this. A family member who’s struggled with mental illness is returning home in a few hours. He’s been incarcerated. When he first went in, he was very unstable and I advocated for him to have meds, which in some jails, can be a difficult thing to get going from my experience. As has been the pattern, once he became stable, he went off meds in jail. The schedule of the jail, weekly meeting, yoga and self-help books were enough for him, he says. When he’s home, the freedom of mananging his own schedule becomes so difficult that he may not eat or sleep for days and then may not get out of bed for a week. I’m encouraging him to make an appointment today, and the strategies he’s learned like yoga, writing, meditation are just that strategies. Without strategies and a schedule, he’s not been able to ever remain stable. In a mania, he’s randomly left the state hitch hiking 4 differnt times just hitchin’ in the night with no solid plan of how to meet his basic needs. One morning at 4:00 AM, an officer forced him to come home because he was walking in -5 degrees way in the country. As a family member and observer, the things he’s learned like the strategies above and many phylosophies he’s studied could help him but only if he’s stable. Just living without getting some real help could be a dangerous thing for him. He still doesn’t see it, and I see him as vulnerable to buying into quick fixes that may help in the moment but not in the long run when he swings. This has been consistent his entire life, but as a child, I maintained his schedule with regular bedtimes, dinner, homework schedule and meds. As an adult, he has to do that for himself, and it’s a challenge. The average person may not be able to fathom the things he’s done to himself with this struggle. Reading all of this has reaffirmed my positions that maintaining a good schedule, using strategies along with medication is the only way he’ll survive. When he’s telling you about some new phylosophy he’s learned that will work instead of meds, he can be so convincing, but the evidence in his self care is there.
Hi Erica,
I’m glad the piece could help you out. You’re in a difficult position – but not alone – many have found themselves where you are.
In my experience, people with a mental illness are vulnerable to “flights of fancy” and “quick fixes” because _medication_ and _therapy_ and _lifestyle_changes_ are hard – so who wouldn’t want an easier way out? And yes, many of us can be _plenty_ convincing. But like you said, and “easier” way out just isn’t possible. It’s hard work or an unstable illness.
I’m glad if I could help confirm you’re doing the right thing and you’re really right to clue in on schedules – I feel they’re critical.
Drop by here any time if you need the support. Good luck.
– Natasha Tracy
Hi Natosha,
Thanks for your note. It does help. And, I have to give credit to my guy. When we were talking, I said I think you really need to make that doctor’s appointment, and he said, “I already did – I know I have trouble sleeping and can’t keep my schedule without some help.” While I’m very aware consistency is a problem, I’m extremely happy that he’s looking at patterns and seeing how sleep/cycles affects him. Very happy indeed. It’s something.
Hi Erica,
That’s great to hear. Yes, be cautiously optimistic but celebrate the little wins. They don’t always come around that often.
– Natasha Tracy
Re-Framing….
Yes Pam I’ve also studied and done some NLP.
I’ve only skimmed the content, however I probably have as much if not more experience than Pam is referring to. I am bi-polar. I am a recovered alcoholic with over 11 years of sobriety and I have a history from my childhood that I’ll put up against most up there.
Pam, you’re oversimplifying things.
What’s made me happy?
Lots of things—
therapy
AA and the 12 steps
medication
It’s true–move a muscle, change a thought and you can’t think your way into right acting you have to act your way into right thinking. I’ve practiced those things for years. Not perfectly. Not every time.
You see, it took me many years of pain, anger, frustration before I found the right mix that works for me.
SIMPLE BUT NOT EASY
Pam–you found something that works for you–great.
But remember what works for you DOES NOT work for everyone.
AA says it better–it’s a wide road and there’s room for everyone. And even though there are 12 steps in that program, everyone’s is different–their sponsor, way they work the steps and the understanding.
When I was new, I was arrogant enough to think that MY WAY was the only way to get sober.
My sponsor, who at the time had 24 years of sobriety, cleared things up for me.
We all have to find a way that works for us—
You can have your ideas and opinions–that’s great.
Just don’t minimize other’s pain and their path–maybe you’ll actually learn something.
You sound like a fundamentalist religious person–it’s either my version of God or else!
We are all entitled to our paths.
Please don’t try to shove yours down others throats–and harm others in the process.
It’s not passive-aggressive to show you it’s a choice. It’s passive-aggressive to not let me reply to your comments ;)
No, I don’t know your depression, and you don’t know mine. What I DO know is the science. What I DO know is that I had exactly your attitude, until I got sick and tired of all my whining and not getting anywhere.
You don’t have to take my word for it!! You can try it out yourself and then report back on whether or not it works. What I’m wondering about is why staying how you are now is so important to you? Why are you fighting me and saying, “It worked for you, but it will never work for meeeeeeeeeeeeee!”
Give it a shot! Prove me wrong! Go for it! I’d be happy posting a caveat on all my post about happiness that it doesn’t work for bipolar people.
But don’t say you know it’s impossible until you’ve tried it. That’s contempt prior to investigation.
Hi PamC,
No, it _is_ passive aggressive to suggest that I’m just “staying” in pain because it’s a “choice.” That’s utter nonsense.
And as for replying – you can reply all day long but the comments only go 5 layers deep. It’s a user-interface thing. You can continue to hit “reply” to the last 4-level comment and the comments will continue to thread appropriately.
Um, I know one heck of a lot about the science too, and that doesn’t mean I agree with you. And I’m not a “whiner.” My posts, each one at a time, represent a state of mind at that moment. They do not represent the same thoughts I have every day. They are an essay, if you like. One expression of annoyance one day does not indicate annoyance every day. As a writer, I express a state of mind.
OK, feel free, give me the link to your 21-day program. I’ll look at it. I have no interest in “proving” you anything mostly because even if it worked like a charm, that would prove _nothing_. That would simply prove that it worked for me, not necessarily anyone else.
But one could just as easily ask why you’re fighting me? Why can you not simply admit that you might not be right? Why can you simply not acknowledge that the same thing doesn’t work for everyone? Why can’t _you_ simply acknowledge that people are different, and that there’s nothing wrong with that? There’s nothing wrong with someone just because they don’t find thinking like you beneficial.
– Natasha Tracy
I LOVE THIS!!!
I think I was about 2 or 3 when I learned just how much I don’t create my own reality… because I never saw that table coming, and yet reality hit me smack upside the head!
I will tell you this, though. Even though I’m in terrible chronic pain, I have found it useful to change my view of life. I can’t change the circumstance of my life, but I can change how I look at it. And here’s something you probably didn’t realize… look at how much good you’re doing here. This site is AMAZING. You’re helping people. You have an intimate understanding of how awful things are when they go wrong. And you’re putting that to good use.
Does that change my pain? Absolutely not. Does the pain still suck? Fuck yeah.
But here’s what I’ve learned from the depression/hypomania cycles that come with my migraines—my reaction to reality is something that changes with my brain chemistry. I don’t always have control over that process, but the same reality can look a whole lot worse if my body decides to dump all it’s serotonin (the migraine mechanism that causes the depression/hypomania). Reality doesn’t change, but I can. This isn’t a process easily under my control, but it is something I can tweak. And I’ve worked very hard in the past year to do that.
I’m not talking about something so silly as making my illness go away with the power of my thoughts. That’s just snake oil. What I am talking about making peace with my disease. When my symptoms come up, I sometimes have a choice in my response. (Not always… if my symptoms surprise me, they can get the best of me.) When I have a choice, the first thing I like to do is *not* *respond*. I detach from whatever is going on, and I look at it. If it’s something I’ve been through before, then I know I can survive; I don’t need to worry. Then it’s a matter of thinking, and choosing the best response for the situation. I like to follow the rule that it should be constructive and responsible. That’s as far as it goes for me, in “making my own reality.”
There is something to the idea that if all I look at are problems, then after a while, I think the whole world is problems. I can think my life is one endless strings of problems. Or, I can stop for a second, and realize that it’s not the same problem! Sure, my life may be full of problems, but that’s because I’ve chosen to fix things in my life! In my wake is a whole string of successfully *solved* problems. I’m making progress. Saying it’s one problem after another is like saying it’s one ladder rung after another. I can focus on the negative, or I can give myself credit for getting somewhere!
So… while I can’t change the fact that, yes, my brain tells me it’s a good idea for me to kill myself, I can still take comfort in the fact that I’m making something good out of it, like you did here. I remind myself in the moment, even if I’m in terrible agony, that I will put this to good use. My suffering doesn’t have to be for nothing. And while that may not change my outside reality, it helps change how I respond to it.
Hang in there, good luck, and thank you for this!!!
Hi PamC,
Thanks so much – great comment.
What you’re describing is very CBT – cognitive behavioral therapy, and I do think that therapy is something every person with a mental illness should take. I think it contains valuable tools that pretty much every person should have in their toolbelt.
That being said, that type of thought, the ability to look at things in another way, just isn’t possible with the deepest of moods. Severe depression, mania, psychosis will just wipe the floor with you and laugh at such paltry tools.
But like I said, they can help many people much of the time, so I’m a fan, and if it’s helping you (and it sounds like it is) then that’s great.
Thank-you for your comments about the site – I do try. And thanks for sharing your experience, that might just help someone else see things in a new and helpful way too.
– Natasha Tracy
This is different than CBT. This is what they call reframing. It’s the idea that the experience of pain is very different depending on the context of the pain. Women who don’t want the child, experience childbirth pain as much worse than women who want the baby.
My severe depressions also come with severe chronic pain. The migraines causes me to dump serotonin, so I get the double whammy of suicidal ideation and blinding agony.The though that my suffering is just suffering is AWFUL. But if I can put my suffering to some good use, if I can use my pain to help someone else, that gives my pain VALUE. It makes my pain & depression something helpful and good. It’s the absolute smallest thread of good, but it can mean the difference between being passively suicidal and riding out the storm, or actively suicidal and asking my husband (now ex) to hide the guns.
Does it make my depression less in the moment? No. I’m still a worthless piece of shit that’s never going to be at peace this side of the grave. But does it help my willingness to stick around? YES. It’s a HUGE comfort to know that I have helped other people. It’s a huge comfort to know that this awful thing can be made into something beautiful. If my pain can teach me how to help someone else hurt less… or how to help them feel less alone and miserable with what they’re going through (like you’ve done here), that’s pretty fucking awesome.
It’s not happy-thought-mantras to try and change the pain & depression… it’s changing the end result of my pain & depression. Because I can create good from it, like a baby I want, it makes it easier to withstand the process. See what I’m trying to say?
Pam, by definition, you cannot be a “worthless piece of shit” if you are helping people! Give yourself some credit – you deserve it!
But I think I know where you are coming from: Given my experience of BP and surviving it (so far!) this has helped me talk through to safety a few people who were at the point of suicide, and that’s a good feeling to know you’ve helped save a life.
There’s also that other aspect – when you know someone is depending on you, that of itself can give a lift to carry on in spite of a strong desire to cash in the chips. I was at that point once when I received a letter from a friend which said, “I am so sad. I don’t know what I would do without you to talk to.” This gave me no choice – I had to carry on for her sake! :¬)
Hi Harryf200,
I agree, many people find being needed helpful in dark times. I admit, I have thought about my readers while I’m in blackness and they do lend a certain perspective is existence. Kids are the most common one I hear about. People stick around for their kids. Which is a good reason, I would say.
– Natasha Tracy
Hi PamC,
I do understand what you’re saying and I do understand reframing. And if that technique works for you then I say go forth and reframe away!
I’m just saying that it doesn’t work for everyone and in my experience, it doesn’t work in the most severe depressions. Reframing is possible – to a point, and then when you get beyond that point your brain just isn’t capable of doing it any more.
Like I said, if it works for you, that’s what matters, but it just doesn’t work for me.
(I actually just wrote about it. It’s not in response to you, just something I’ve been thinking about: https://natashatracy.com/mental-illness-issues/meaning/good-bipolar/ )
– Natasha Tracy
Love the new article!! You make a really good point. What I’m trying to say is, though I may not be able to be happy *in* my life, but I can still be happy *about* my life.
For me, it comes down to practicality. I don’t want to be miserable, right. I want to be happy. So I studies happiness wherever I could find it. Here’s one very interesting fact—there are two different kinds of happiness. There’s happiness in the moment, and happiness in the MEMORY. Of the two, happiness in the memory is actually the more *lasting* happiness. As I said, I may not be able to be happy *in* my life, but I can still be happy *about* my life. This video (20min long) is what changed my approach to finding happiness in my life.
http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html
I wonder…. Tell me if I’m wrong, but this is what I “hear” when I hear you talk about BPD: “I don’t like it. I don’t have to like it. I’m not going to like it. It’s not fair. I shouldn’t have to live like this.” Is that right?
Here’s the thing though…. What percentage of the population do you think is “healthy”? What percentage of people do you think deals with chronic ailments like this (chronic=lasts more than 3 months). How many people do you think are disabled?
I’m pretty sure the numbers are going to blow you away.
See, HALF of the population has a chronic illness. Of that half, over one-third have a disabling condition, 47% are in chronic pain, and only 4% have a condition that is visible. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE SENIORS!!! 90% of seniors have a chronic illness, and 52% of seniors have a disability. HEALTHY PEOPLE ARE A MINORITY. We chronically ill folk do not need to feel ashamed, or think of ourselves as “less than.” The truth is chronic illness comes into everyone’s lives eventually… one way, or another. We just got a head start!
Years ago, my grandmother was talking on the phone with my mother, and she was complaining about her friends. “They’ve all become such whiners!!!” she extolled. And then she suddenly realized, “I’ve had a lifetime to get use to chronic illness, and they’ve just started!”
You’re right that it’s a curse… but everyone gets cursed. And you’re right that it’s damn near impossible to be happy about it. I don’t have to be happy about the times my hypomania has driven me to shameful, embarrassing, “well, don’t invite *her* anymore!” incidents. I certainly don’t jump for joy, going, “Oh goodie! Excruciating pain and depression that’s going to terrorize me to the edge of my life! Fun times!” Um… riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight…. that’s /really/ nuts! lol
Thing is, misery is easy. Happiness is difficult. I can chose to work on my misery (which can be useful… I’ve written some incredible pieces in the height of agony), or I can try to work on my happiness, despite it all. It doesn’t help me to concentrate on everything that’s wrong. Nothing new there! And I can’t do anything about it! So why not shift my energy to something I *can* do something about?
Hi PamC,
I think your attitude is great :) I think it must be beneficial for you. The only thing I can say is that people who are really depressed _can’t_feel_happy_ about anything. That’s my point. This may not be you, but it is many.
And of course you want to be happy! It’s great to take steps in that direction. And if you can find it in this way, that’s great.
And to be clear, people who _can’t_ be happy, also can’t _remember_ happiness. This is a real thing and a real problem. It has to do with brain chemicals. (It’s complicated but I wrote about it here: https://natashatracy.com/mental-illness/depression/remember-depressed-emotion-memory/ )
It’s not that I’m saying “it’s not fair,” it’s not, but that isn’t really the point. I’m just saying that I, personally, don’t see a “benefit” like some people do.
As for what percentage is healthy? I don’t know. But there is a difference between having a 100% of the time, 24/7 broken brain and having other issues that may impact only a portion of your life. Yes, people have chronic illnesses, but not all are created equal.
Yes, people get “cursed” by different things, and make no mistake, there are other “curses” in my life too, but it’s not the same thing as having a broken brain that affects every single thought I ever have every moment of every day.
Again, not everyone is affected my mental illness to this extent, but many are. Like I said, I think your attitude is great and that attitude would help many. Yes, people should focus on happiness when they can, I totally agree, but that doesn’t mean that they always can and it doesn’t mean that sometimes misery just isn’t all there is.
– Natasha Tracy
I know you’re rolling your eyes at me going “Yeah, right…” but you should really watch this next video. It proves that we *manufacture* happiness, even in cases with retrograde amnesia…. Wanna talk about a broken brain? These people can’t make new memories. And yet… it is still possible for them to MANUFACTURE happiness.
You say a depressed person can’t remember happy times. But you can’t remember pain either. You can’t think of the most painful experience you’ve had (breaking a bone, for instance) and recreate that feeling. So so say depressed people can’t remember happiness doesn’t really mean anything. There are all sort of things that people can’t remember, nor pull up from their memory.
Let me ask you this—who’s happier, the guy who loses his legs, or the guy who wins the lottery? Which life event would you volunteer for? But as it turns out, a year after the event, people who are missing their legs are *just* as happy as the folks who won the lottery. http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html
“But there is a difference between having a 100% of the time, 24/7 broken brain and having other issues that may impact only a portion of your life. Yes, people have chronic illnesses, but not all are created equal.”
I gave you the numbers… and I’m talking about DISABLING chronic conditions, not just chronic conditions. I’m talking about people in chronic pain. Depression hurts, but it doesn’t hurt like chronic pain. Yes, not all chronic illness are created equally. There are plenty of people who are a lot worse of than us. We’re here online! Our lives are not as hard as nearly 1/3rd the WORLD’S population….
Your brain is broken… so is mine. I go through the EXACT same swings in chemicals that YOU do. I know what you’re talking about.
You praise my attitude. And that’s all that it is … and ATTITUDE. It doesn’t guarantee happiness. It doesn’t MAKE me happy, as you well know.
But if you had the choice to work towards happiness, or do nothing and ensure that you stay miserable, wouldn’t you rather work towards happiness?
Do you want to use your energy beating yourself against the wall of what’s impossible? Or would you rather explore and look around for what IS possible?
You are, of course, welcome to stay right here if you want to.
Hi PamC,
I’m _not_ rolling my eyes and saying “yeah, right” because I acknowledge that your point of view works for you and I wouldn’t want to take away from that. I respect that. I’m sure it would help a lot of people.
What you’re not respecting is that it doesn’t work for everyone. What you’re not respecting is the fact that everyone has different experiences. What you’re not respecting is that everyone experiences bipolar and depression differently. What you’re not respecting is what’s going on in _my_ brain. You have no way of knowing what it is. You are I may have the same diagnosis but that doesn’t make what we go through the _same_.
Anheonia – the inability to feel happiness – is a _real_ thing, and the people who have it can’t just _manufacture_ happiness. Like I said, if your perspective works for you, that’s great, but it’s utter hubris to say that it _can_ and _will_ work for anyone. We are _all_ different. And I have been doing this a very long time and I know quite well what does and does not work for me.
You can’t compare other people’s “happiness” quotient as if it were the amount of orange juice in a glass. People are happy or not depending on a lot of factors and while having legs or having won the lottery may be one of them, it’s only one. I could win the lottery and not feel a bit of joy – that’s depression for you.
I do not try to compare my pain with others. I don’t know why you think you should compare yours with mine, or a lottery winner’s or anyone else’s. It just doesn’t work that way. It’s not about a “hard life” it’s about what’s going on in one’s brain and that can happen in a concentration camp or in a field of flowers. You might not fundamentally understand that, but it _is_ the case. Maybe not for you, but for others.
And please, don’t use the passive aggressive “you can stay right here if you want to,” nonsense. That suggests that you know some secret way. You don’t. You know _a_ way that works _for_you. Which is fine. Good. But it doesn’t mean it would do a lick of good for someone else. You know what else people swear by? Religion. Know how certain they are about that? Very. And yet that doesn’t do one whit of good for me.
So please, feel free to bathe in the certainty of your correctness if that’s what works for you, but out here, in the forest of _other_people_ experiencing illnesses _differently_ we all won’t necessarily find help in the same places you will.
– Natasha Tracy
Pam, I’m troubled by your attitude.
I had a psychotic break in 2008. My then husband’s likely Borderline ex was bullying us. She violated California truancy laws and rained hell and destruction on us. My stepson’s therapist didn’t believe us, and his school repeatedly promised help, then denied us.
I went to therapy where I was told I was being “irrational” and more or less called a liar. I was told I needed to improve my attitude. The effort of trying to become more positive and ignore child abuse was untenable and pushed me into a break. Although I did not know at the time I am Bipolar, I graduated from Type 2 to Type 1. I began having delusional manic attacks in which I believed the Universe wanted me to blackmail her mother for failing to address her daughter’s blatant mental health problems using the 1979 Newbery Award winning book, The Westing Game, as a technical manual.
If that therapist had acted with intent, telling me I was making things up and manufacturing issues, it’d be called “gaslighting” after the Ingrid Bergman movie. It’s a form of emotional abuse and torture. Bonus: my husband was abusing me behind closed door because he couldn’t withstand the pressure of his ex-wife’s behavior and the system’s refusal to address her issues.
I lost my mind trying to follow directions and think “positively” about illegal behavior and domestic violence. And now I’m writing a book about it.
My sanity was completely compromised by people who believe there is a single solution for everyone and we just need to reframe and all would be well, which is simply not the case. I wouldn’t be in this boat if that attitude weren’t harmful.
Though I don’t recall the details, I saw an article about a month ago about a Midwestern legislator who advised women who are being physically assaulted by their husbands to consider how much they truly love him while taking it. That is utter bullshit. As a DV survivor, I’m sickened by that attitude.
There are profound limitations to reframing. You have no idea what my experience, personality, or life are like, nor do I understand yours. I take LSD sometimes to bring me back to the present and put me in touch with the world around me. Do I think you should? FUCK NO. Acid is not a toy and I’m an experienced psychonaut whose use predates my psychotic break. What would you think if I said all you need to do to feel better about your mood disorder is taking narcotics?
I doubt you’d be pro.
There is no simple solution.
Additionally, nothing has made me more suicidal that simplistic advice from friends about my “attitude.” Nothing makes me feel more inadequate and helpless than being told “you should just…” Well, I tried my damndest and I can’t. When I’m at my lowest, that makes me think maybe I should just give up since I can’t follow the crowd.
There are two reasons I haven’t killed myself yet, one of which is a refusal to model that behavior for my 18 year old son. But I also don’t tell him what to feel around his Bipolar because I know he needs to sort his own solutions. He and I are a lot alike. We look very similar and share the same genes. But what works for me is not what works for him. He and his therapist are discovering that together.
PamC, I’d like to submit my 2 cents worth (or whatever change I can scrounge up)…bear with me.
In one post, you said
“I gave you the numbers… and I’m talking about DISABLING chronic conditions, not just chronic conditions. I’m talking about people in chronic pain. Depression hurts, but it doesn’t hurt like chronic pain. Yes, not all chronic illness are created equally.”
You said you gave the numbers, and I read all the percentages you gave, but I’m wondering what your sources are. It’s not that I’m doubting the statistics you’ve quoted, I’d just like to see for myself; I’m going into a medical field, and these types of things are intriguing to me.
The second thing that I take issue with in your statement is where you said that
“Depression hurts, but it doesn’t hurt like chronic pain.”
I’m not sure if you are aware, but there is a group of disorders called Somatoform Disorders. “The common feature of the Somatoform Disorders is the presence of physical symptoms that suggest a general medical condition (hence, the term somatoform) and are not fully explained by a general medical condition…”
One somatoform disorder is called Pain Disorder, and one of the subtypes of pain disorder is “Pain Disorder Associated With Psychological Factors. This subtype is used when psychological factors are judged to have the major role in the onset, severity, exacerbation, or maintenance of the pain. In this subtype, general medical conditions play either no role or a minimal role in the onset or maintenance of the pain.” Additionally, “The pain is not intentionally produced or feigned as in Factitious Disorder or Malingering. The psychological factors involved may consist of another Axis I or Axis II disorder (which would also be diagnosed).”
Basically, what this describes is acute or chronic pain associated with or caused by another mental illness, including mood and anxiety disorders. My point is that **depression can _cause_ chronic pain**.
In order to hold myself to my own standards in citing sources, this information is taken directly from the DSM-IV-TR, it is classified as a mental illness, or as being comorbid with another mental illness. (In the copy I have, the description and diagnostic criteria are on pages 498-503.)
Hi Karen,
Sounds like you’ve come through a lot. That’s tough but if I had to guess, I’d say you’ve come out stronger for it. That’s not a rah, rah, yeah bipolar comment, that’s just a fact.
I agree, being told to fix your “attitude” can drive a person to suicide when you try and try and just can’t succeed over, and over. It’s an endless cycle of supposed failure when really you’re just attempting the impossible.
As for the reasons you haven’t killed yourself – not modelling that behavior for your son is a powerful one. I would like to think that mothers had it in them to do this, even if at times, they didn’t want to. That’s a huge gift you’re giving. It’s better for you, of course, your life is worth something regardless, but it’s also a huge gift to him.
“But what works for me is not what works for him. He and his therapist are discovering that together.”
I’m glad you understand that. Just another way in which you’re being a good mother.
– Natasha Tracy
Hi Juliet,
I, too, am curious as to exactly where those numbers come from and what a “disabling chronic condition” is considered to be.
I also take issue with the idea that depression doesn’t hurt like chronic pain. Severe depression absolutely does. In fact, many people would _prefer_ physical pain over mental pain. I’ve heard people tell me this again and again. (I actually find it that way too.) When someone says differently I suspect they just haven’t suffered the type of mental anguish others have.
Thank-you for supplying the factual, medical information on somatoform disorders. While those are a real thing, somatnform symptoms are also common simply as aspects of depression and other mental illnesses. (I’m not sure if you would call that a duel diagnosis, but I wouldn’t.) I wrote about it here: http://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/breakingbipolar/2011/09/mental-illness-means-physical-pain-too/
Thanks for your comment.
– Natasha Tracy
People do create their own reality, that’s why there no point in trying to change it.
They will literately try to force their meager existence onto you like this article does to others.
From the words of a realist “I don’t act depressed and I don’t complain to others because all it does is ruin the lives of all the people around me.” Nobody will force their opinions on you if you don’t give them cause for concern and if your tired of listening to optimists and friends generally concerned for your well being; quit complaining and ask questions and listen instead.
Only certain people can acknowledge the things around them and even less people can change them. You might not be able to help everybody around you but you can help the ones who want to change and become better and until your willing to try to change yourself there is nothing anybody can do for you.
People have gotten over all the diseases you stated but all the people I’ve seen were optimistic and searched for their own cure rather than listen to others.
You are creating you own reality by not looking around and trying to understand the cripple, the cancer patient and the hungry because even with their fate a lot of them are happy and you ignoring the real victims, the ones who suffer because of these people. The father who lost his son to suicide, the sister who was driving the brother during the accident and the mother who can’t feed her kids.
Oh, ignorance is bliss! Wise up! You may create your own reality but psychotics don’t. People with Bipolar Disorder don’t. Schizophrenics don’t. And no amount of self-talk will cure them. If you are Bipolar you will always be Bipolar, or if you are Schizophrenic you will always be Schizophrenic, until a doctor declares you dead; and then your Bipolar lives on having been passed on through your genes to your off spring. Mental illness isn’t an option that we can choose not to have. It can’t be cured. It may be controlled – for some of the time, if you’re lucky, or it may go into remission, but there is no cure, and certainly no alternative reality one may choose instead of being mentally ill. The REALITY is that someone with Bipolar Disorder or Schizophrenia can no more change their reality into something happier that a paraplaegic man can change the reality of his severed spine, or for a profoundly deaf woman can change the reality of her world being silent. Please understand this because suggesting to someone who is confused by their mental illness that they could be rid of their condition if only they changed their reality, YOU, Darian, may do them great harm; when they imagine they have the power to cure their own distress and find they cannnot do it, this smashes their self-esteem and they begin the spiral into self-loathing and some of them will die because they feel they are not worthy of Life. You, Darian, can do that to someone, and writing it here, a place that is visited by people who are mentally ill, you have more of a chance to do great damage that if you espoused your erroneous views in a bar.
First off my diagnoses: bipolar 1 rapid cycling with mixed episodes. This includes delusional states of mind.
I had been a “realist” for 18 years ( was diagnosed at 36 ) and thought that the only person it had hurt or was hurting was me. I didnt want to bring people down, its not their problem. I have never been so wrong in my life. Now I call it denial. Hiding my depression inside, constantly thinking it was just something wrong with me that I had to get over, that i just had to get on with life and work harder, provide more for my family, give all I had and it would be better, that I would be better.
Undiagnoised Bipolar cost me my marriage due to affairs. Blowing savings i couldnt afford too and not even knowing why. My friends who seemed to appear and encouraged me in the wrong ways when it was fun and disappeared when it wasn’t. Employment because I was over the top or couldn’t work or even show up. All this by the way fed my depression better than petrol feeds fires. And now I know that in it all, the highest price I paid was my soul. If it wasn’t for the unending love of my ex wife and now best friend who by the way is BPD ( it was a fun house lmao ) I would not be typing this message now. Only a fool would ever think that just getting on with it is the answer.
My goal post for normal was now as I know it “hypomania” and always just before I hit full mania ( though i didnt know what that was at the time ) anything else was never good enough and when I succeeded I never gave myself credit.
My reality in depression is that I was worthless, hateful. I loathed the being I was, that this pointless existence would go on and on, i would never get it right, that there is no way out. See its a mindset that is chemically caused its not just being sad. You cant see the light when you’re alone in the darkness of that savage beast. I won’t deny I knew what I had to do but see depression uses that to rub you face in it, to bring you down into that pit of dispair further and further.
This is the answer. My psychiatrist and psychologist working together and myself taking my meds. Now the sun shines more often than not, I know what mania is and it’s warning signs, I know what depression is and it’s warning signs. I still get those days but never ones that invole a long drop with a short stop or at the other end, I haven’t thought that the world is a projection of my own mind and I can control people with thoughts or my personal favorite being an alien and despising this plague on the earth called humanity.
I still miss the mania ( its only been 3 months of stability lol ) the colours vibrate, the wind sings, the earth embraces my every step, the sun shines just for me. If anyone has a cure for depression that leaves hypomania drop me a line would you lol.
So as you can see Darian being a “realist” as you say and keeping silent is the most dangerous thing human being with any mental illness can do. And not saying anything seems to have destroyed everything I had anyway. I wish I had spoken out when I was 18 maybe then I would not have had to go through so much pain and destruction just for the comfort of others, maybe I would have weeded out the asshole friends I did have and kept some that actually gave a shit due understanding me and what it was I was going through. I just hope that you see someone one day that is hiding their pain and encourage them to get help before its to late.
“Undiagnoised Bipolar cost me my marriage…”
Me too. I couldn’t create my own friggin’ reality if I were a god at that point. And I certainly can’t create my own reality now, 5 years (and finally a diagnosis), later. The reality is that this illness, and not knowing I had it, ruined my life and broke up my family after 15 years together through thick and thin. I’m still dealing with the fallout, in actual reality.
CBT, to me, is a fancified name for the oh-so-annoying trope, “fake it til you make it.” While it may work well for people with bouts of situational depression (normal folks), it totally sucks as a long-term strategy for clinical depression or bipolar disorder.
That is, however, just my personal opinion. YMMV.
I don’t think you understand what the phrase “we create our own reality” means. This post changes the intentions of that phrase and doesn’t make any sense. You are [moderated]
Mary,
It’s odd that a woman who would use that kind of language would profess to know anything about life.
– Natasha
Thanks so much for this post. Right now I’m in the midst of a very unpleasant mixed episode. Depressed, yet restless, agitated and paraniod.
My partner is fond of telling me that you create your own reality. He really does mean well, and he believes this new age mumbo jumbo. However, this does annoy me, and I think that while I appreciate that pearl of wisdom I am somewhat challenged in a reality sense. It’s not as if someone who is experiencing a severe bipolar episode has any command over their own reality. Thus rendering the whole concept of whether you do your own reality a moot point.
To be honest my grasp on reality right now is tenuous at best. If you aren’t even sure what reality is, how are you meant to exert any control over it and create your own? But, perhaps more accurately, during an episode, you are perfectly capable of creating your own reality. Perhaps too capable. But that doesn’t mean that you can actually control what you create. This is why such things are called a mental illnessess!
As someone already mentioned, ‘what have you got to be depressed about’. Well, since when was suffering from a mental illness meant to be rational? Especially if you are experiencing psychotic features? Something that seems to go hand in hand with depressive and mixed episodes for me.
I really don’t think people can understand when they have not been ill themselves.
Hi Wellshark.
I feel for you. It’s more than a bitch living with someone who really doesn’t understand. It’s even harder having to live with mixed episodes – been there, too.
Hi WellyShark,
(Interesting name. Is that “welly” as in the gumboot?)
Yes, people who spout new age and other mumbo jumbo do often mean well but that doesn’t mean they actually do well. It’s rather sad that they don’t see the effect of _their_ own actions (or, perhaps, ironic).
No, a person with an illness doesn’t create their own reality, not a mental illness nor any other.
And, you’re right, when you’re in the midst of a mental illness episode even knowing what reality is can be tricky. And you make a good point – a mental illness can create a reality, just not one over which we have control which is really the important bit.
And as for suffering from a mental illness being rational, I think it depends on what you mean by rational. I think it’s entirely rational, personally. Your very sick brain is giving out messages and you’re trying to deal with that in the best way you can. The fact that it’s not “rational” to others only shows how sick your brain is, not your capability for rationality.
“I really don’t think people can understand when they have not been ill themselves.”
Yeah, I know, it’s hard for others to understand. Sometimes I think they never will without the experience which I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
– Natasha Tracy
As one with Bipolar Disorder, I too find it hard to listen to people who belittle what we go through, as if it were a “normal state of being”, as in “we all have our ups and downs”.
But if we reject all suggestions that we have some control over our own view of the World in it’s Bipolar state, then we must surely be denying the effectiveness of Congitive Behavioural Therapy! Are we? Is there anyone here who has received it that would say it didn’t help them at all?
Well, there might be … I mean, are we really sure the CBT really did something for us, or is it wishful thinking, or is it a desire to please the therapists by telling them what we know they want to hear, that it works? Is CBT some kind of psychological placaebo? CBT needs some measure of rational thinking to exist in the mind of the person it is being done to because it requires us to analyse our own behaviour. Is that possible to achieve ina confused state of mind? Is everyone intellectually capable of doing it anyway?
Moving on from there, if we foist all our behaviours as being beyond our control, beyond our responsibility, and foisting it all on the Bipolar, isn’t that too black and white? Sure, we may want to max out the credit card or punch the neighbour in the face and have a torrid affair with his wife, but does that mean everyone with Bipolar is incapable of resisting those temptations?
Personanally, I think there’s a “middle ground”, that we have ‘some’ capacity to rein back our impulses, some more (or less) than others, and in that respect, we DO have a measure of control over how we feel (and behave).
Hi Harryf200,
Sorry for the late response, I’ve been suffering some technological drama lately.
I’m not saying we don’t have control over our “world view” as our world view is not an organic response but an interpretation of such. Thus, yes, we have choices as to how we interpret what we see and experience.
I don’t deny the effectiveness of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) but it has its place and it can only do so much. CBT is, again, an interpretation of feelings, not an alteration of feelings themselves. At least, as far as I’ve ever experienced it. I don’t believe CBT can fundamentally change how we feel, only how we react to it. That’s why many of us find it of limited usefulness. I think CBT works best for situational depression and other situational problems.
And you are correct in saying that not everyone can use CBT for one reason or another. You need a certain degree of wellness before you can even attempt it.
Again, it’s not that behaviors are beyond our control, it’s that the organic feelings are. Like everyone, just because you have a feeling doesn’t mean you have to act on it, thus, our actions are ours to own. That being said, sometimes we’re too sick to truly understand our actions, sometimes we are too sick or the feelings are too strong to control but in general, this is not the case.
Thanks for the comment.
– Natasha Tracy
Having thought more on this, I find myself in complete agreement with you. I would add that, while I don’t like to admit it, I think some of us may be inclined to exaggerate the effectiveness of the CBT on us; we know our therapists have expectations, we come to have a relationship with them, and so we want to say things to please them …
Hi Harryf200,
Yes, just saying whatever the therapist wants you to say is a real danger with therapy, of course the same can be said of any type of treatment. You might feel inclined to tell your doctor you feel better too, even if you don’t.
CBT is a tricky subject. I do think it helps people but it was really the flavor of the week there and I think it got overblown. People don’t even want to criticize it because it’s so popular and gives people hope. Of course, I’m not known for obeying such rules. But even if it helps a little, at least it helps – and it’s side effect free :)
– Natasha Tracy
With regard to PamC and Natasha’s discussion: I think it is quite fair to say that, with regard to coping techniques, that ‘one man’s meat is another man’s poison’ because, as Natasha says, we are all different. There is no one solution. BUT when we are depressed it is hard enough to get out of bed let alone come up with something to help ourselves cope; so, hearing about how others manage can be useful because it may give us ideas that we can try, and they may even work for us, if only for a while.
All that said, we must remember also that our condition is cyclic to some degree or other. We fall ill and the illness generally goes into remission at some point, usually to rear its ugly head again at a later time. So, we may find ourselves recovering because of, or in spite of, our medicines and other regimes, be they NLP or CBT or religion or whatever else. Just because there is a correlation between “recovery” and “treatment” in OUR case that does not necessarily mean there is a causal relationship.
BUT the key thing here is, I think, seizing on the feeling that we have not resigned ourselves to this misery, that we are going to fight it anyway, if not to defeat it but keep it from totally defeating us. So, ‘doing something’, however useful it may be in the long term, is better than doing nothing. The danger, however, is surely in putting too much faith in the “solution” because if it doesn’t work, the feeling of “let down” may be worse than if we’d never tried.
That all said, any self-help that requires a degree of rationalising (as does CBT) is lot on anyone who is so ill they are incapable of rational thought or not bright enough to be very rational anyway.
However, we must not lose sight of the fact that people with BP are not only affected by the chemical or physiological triggers of depression (and mania/hypomania) but ALSO by psychologically derived depression. The medics (in the UK at least) no longer talk of “endongenous” and “reactive” depressions because it is now understood that each can trigger the other, that a “chemical” depression can distort how we see the World and cause an overlaying psychologically generated depression, while a psychologically generated depression can cause the switches to be thrown to trigger a “chemical depression”. This is why in the UK even Bipolar patients are, when possible, treated with both drug and psycho- therapies. (It is claimed the combination is more effective that either one or the other treatments in isolation.)
But I think what the pDoc’s miss is that each “episode” we have can be different from the previous ones and, therefore, may require a different treatment approach. For example, the first time I had CBT it seemed to be very useful – it helped, especially helped to restore my shattered self image; where once I thought of myself as a weakling and a failure, I now like myself. But more latterly, when I recieved CBT again, it was not so useful (if at all).
Hi Harryf200,
You make some very good points. One I would like to mention is where you mentioned that the same therapy may not work even for the same person at different times. As you mentioned, CBT was useful once, but not again. And this is also something I think people miss. CBT is just a set of tools and those tools can just do anything you want, they can only do what they can do and sometimes that helps and sometimes that doesn’t.
For me, it’s important to distinguish intrinsic from extrinsic sadness, if for no other reason, then for my own sanity. I have to fundamentally understand that nothing in my life “caused” the depression except my brain. It’s simply intrinsic. This matters otherwise I’d go completely bonkers trying to fix something that a) isn’t there and b) isn’t fixable. https://natashatracy.com/mental-illness/depression/depression-intrinsic-extrinsic-sadness/
I do agree that positive steps should be taken, I’m just disagreeing about what those positive steps look like. For me, taking my medication every day helps me about 1000% more than therapy. But that’s me. (I’m not suggesting the tools I’ve learned there aren’t useful, they are, but compared to medication, paltry.)
– Natasha Tracy
Well now…let me see…
“What have YOU got to be depressed about?”
“I know people a lot worse off than you and they’re perfectly happy. Why can’t you cope? You just have the wrong attitude.”
“I think you’re just spoiled.”
Well, frankly, I think you just don’t want to work like eveyone else has to.”
“Must be nice not to have to work.”
“I’d be depressed too if I slept as much as you do! Maybe if you got up and went for a walk you’d feel better.”
“Ups and downs are normal. It’s called LIFE!”
“You just need a sense of purpose. That’s all.”
“What you need is faith in God. He gives us everything we need. You just need to ask.”
“You’re always thinking about what YOU need. You think your whole life is about YOU!” (well duh)
“I know lots of people who are bipolar and they work. You should be able to do what they do. You have no excuse.” (Not all bipolar patients are the same. I also happen to have other issues as well.)
“If you can do ‘this’, ‘this’, and ‘this’, then you should be able to do ‘that’, ‘that’, and ‘that’.” (bloody ignorance)
The list is endless.
One of the most frightening, exciting, and enjoyable things I’ve done in my life is start up an art gallery exhibiting the work solely of artists solely with both visible and invisible disabilities. I spent my entire life savings on the venture. It was extremely well received by the public and by the artists. The point was to open a dialogue with the public regarding the ways that the artist’s disabilities *did* and *did not* affect their work. The one way the mental illnesses affected the artist’s work the most fequently was that they would start working on a body of work when they were ‘well’, and then have to stop because they’d have ‘episodes’, then return to the work again when they could, and thus the work could take months or in some cases YEARS to complete, and in every instance the crowd was awed and humbled by their dedication and innate driven sense of purpose.
I had many artists with schizophrenia and bipolar opening up to 100’s of receptive total strangers every month about what it is like to survive and thrive with their illnesses to receive tears and hugs and praise. I was amazed and enthralled by the artist’s bravery and the public’s warmth and understanding. It was an awful thing to have to close the gallery three years later when my daughter died, but I was abolutely about to go ’round the bend with grief and a bipolar response that would blow me away for the next few years.
There’s a hell of a deep well of ignorance out there, but there is a deeper well of understanding and acceptance to be found too. Just wanted to remind you all of that. It’s not hopeless.
Hi Stephanie,
Thank-you for sharing that story. In some cases there are people with a wealth of understanding, no doubt about that. It seems that there are fewer of them than there should be in many of our lives though. Most of us live with this tiny circle of confidants because of it. But, hopefully, over time, the number will grow.
I’m sorry your venture didn’t work out for you but I’m humbled that you tried and did so much good for so long.
– Natasha
Thank you. I’m an author and I suffer from bipolar disorder. I’ve been unable to write for several years because I had some bad stuff happen that gave me (or relapsed me into) PTSD, too. Well, I haven’t been completely unable to write, but not like I did, there’s just been a lot going on with my illness (a concussion, etc.).
You have really helped me with this post about your gallery. It helps me tremendously to know that it’s not just me who get blocked up by this condition and that even after years there’s hope of going back to my projects and art and finishing my work and creating new stories.
Again, thank you so much.
Hi Natasha,
Feel like you are my new Pen-Pal. I believe a lot of people must feel the same. Don’t know how you manage to respond to everyone who writes to you in need of your feedback that is always thoughtful and sincere. That is a gift you have. As a “helper” myself I know how your gift can sometimes seem like a curse. It is touching to me to receive consideration from someone else who actually cares about people and their individual needs. By the way, it always pisses me off when people come back at you with criticism and just plain meanness. They are so obviously ignorant and possible jealous of someone who has as much to offer as you do, Sadly, they preobably don’t even have the insight to realize this. Glad you are able to react to them without lossing it becasuse I would just want to cuss them out in a big way.
You were so on target in every comment you had to my expressions of hopelessness from last night. Thanks for being there when I really did feel alone and scared. It meant a lot. Isn’t it sad that someone who doesn’t really know me has more compassion for me than people I have actually given so much of myself to. And one in particular who has been the grateful receipient of my gift for expressing intense passion, if you know what I mean. What an ass.
No, I could never be accussed of being mediocre. Proud of that. Would not want to fit in with the crowd. Hell, I am happy for the fact that being left-handed makes me a little different. But when it comes to prejudice and dismissal because of your illness, that is another story. I will fight to the end to prove my illness does not define me or make me less than anyone else. In fact, it gives me as you said, extarordinary feelings that people actually benefit from at times. Then they forget. And you are right about my ex-boyfriend. He will never have the capacity to appreciate the qualities that I possess because the emotional stuff is so scary to him. I cannot respect someone who is such a coward and so unaware of what really matters when it comes to meaningful connections.
Yes, obviously my mood has changed from last night, and feel I am being quite self-indulgent with my ranting but just had the need (like you don’t get it) to express my fresh mood of the moment while it lasts. Whatever possesses you to be the wealth of inspiration and wisdom for all of us, I am grateful for in a deep way. Not that you need advice, but I hope you give yourself as much or more than you give. Okay, I will restrain myself from going on and on. I wish peace of mind to all who read this blog.
Hi Laurie,
I’m happy to know I was helpful. I like to help when I can. And yes, I try to make an effort to respond to comments as I feel that if someone reaches out to me they deserve a response. I can’t always keep up with the comments but I try my best.
Thank-you for all the compliments. It’s always nice to know I’m appreciated.
I don’t think you’re particularly indulgent and you’re welcome to comment here any time.
Thanks,
– Natasha Tracy
I think the most recent thing I heard that was awful was my boyfriend, oh yes the loving idiot he is (lol), told me that I am being selfish about my treatment….”It’s all about you”. To that I say….”Well fucking DUH!” Who else would MY treatment be about…YOU??? Puhlease! I don’t need to watch a stupid “self-help” movie. I can’t just “change” my thoughts, my illnesses (got 2 new diagnoses) and “be normal”. He likes the way I was before treatment when I was denying my illness to him and myself. He wants the “old you” back, well to that I say fuck you. I’m NOT going back to what I was before….a miserable time bomb waiting to go off! Now I’m facing my mental illnesses head on, taking control of the uncontrollable as much as I can and getting better for ME! First good thing I’ve done for myself in years and I won’t stop now!! =)
Hi Binky,
Well, yes, treatment does tend to be all about you as you’re the one with the illness and there’s no way you should feel badly about that. You should feel proud you are facing your problems head-on. Many people never get that far. Good for you, I say.
That being said, in your boyfriend’s defence, mental illness can affect everyone and is sounds like your treatment/illness is affecting him too. Sounds like it might be time for some couple therapy. That way he can feel included and you can continue to get the help that you need.
– Natasha Tracy
Binky,
Notn much left to give tonight. Feeling particularly suicidal and so tired of insensitive f’ing ignorant people. My ex-boyfriend who I still live with, high on the list. Yeah, he told me I have to move out due to my being too emotional. Hey, it isn’t like I stabbled him or something. Just expressed some raw feelings once too often which he is scared of. Poor him. I told him to try living for one day in this messed up mind of mine which by the way you find so fascinating at times. Trying not to punish myself for his lack of understanding but he isn’t the only one. Feel that people often just put up with me. It isn’t like I act like a raving lunatic, just a little intense and overbearing at times. And even then, I am holding back. Excuse me for not fitting the mold. Wouldn’t want to anyway. Just comforting to read that there are other insightful, intelligent people out there who are just as crazy as me.
Hi Laurie,
I’m sorry to hear you are in that place right now. I know how difficult it is. You are not alone.
I, for one, have had the experience many times of people not being able to take my powerful experiences of emotion and certainly not my expressing of them. You are not alone there. It is very tough to fit into a mould of mediocrity when what you experience is extraordinary.
There are intelligent and insightful people out there, I promise; maybe your ex-boyfriend isn’t one of them.
– Natasha Tracy
Wow I am sooo glad I found this website while surfing around. I was told at 16, I’m now 41, that I was bipolar but my abusive/alcoholic father was afraid people would find out about his “secret” I wasn’t allowed to seek help. Thanks dad. Now I FINALLY had the courage to seek out help, and this was after finding out I passed this dreaded disease on to my oldest daughter. =( My main reason for replying is my boyfriend thinks he’s “helping” when he tells me how I can “change how I view the world, change my own thinking, change my brain”. He hasn’t a freakin’ clue what he’s talking about. He hasn’t lived MY life, been through my deepest depths of hell with me, lived in my psychosis, lived with bipolar untreated for all my life, lived with my PTSD. So to him and everyone else who thinks they “know” and are “helping” please shut up, we don’t need your kind of “help”. That is all.
Thanks for letting me post here!
Hi Binky,
Of course, you are welcome to post here any time.
I’m so sorry you had to live with the secret of a mental illness for so long. As we all know, it can’t get better, if you don’t ask for help. But you took the very brave step of getting help and you should be applauded for that.
“my boyfriend thinks he’s “helping” when he tells me how I can “change how I view the world, change my own thinking, change my brain”. He hasn’t a freakin’ clue what he’s talking about.”
Some people really do think they’re helping but, you’re right, they just don’t get it. They haven’t lived inside a bipolar brain and they have a hard time identifying with what we go through.
If I might suggest, if you’ve found an article helpful, perhaps you could encourage your boyfriend to read it or other writings about bipolar disorder. That may help him understand what you’re going through a bit more.
– Natasha Tracy
Hi Natasha,
Yes I’ve done some research for him, put it all together in a nice neat little package and he has a BIT more understanding than he did before. He didn’t know the extent to how bipolar affects people, more directly me. He still subscribes to the “you can change your thinking” because he seems to think that the way I react to things is due to my past experiences instead of my past experiences are the result of my bipolar. Ahhh how nice it must be to be “normal” huh? Oh well, at least he has a bit more understanding and he is supportive of my decision to not live in silence with this anymore. And I am proud of myself for finally stepping forward and saying “Hey, this is NOT normal please help me!!”. Hard decision? Definitely! Worth it? Absolutely!
Binky
Hi Blinky,
Well, a bit more understanding is a bit more than he had before :) And that’s something.
I can tell you with my own mother it took years before she really realized what bipolar is and that I couldn’t think my way out of it. It was extremely difficult to deal with her and it hurt me a lot, but I can say, eventually, after _lots_ of education, she came around. So it is possible but it may not be on a timeline that we would like.
– Natasha Tracy
I don’t know if Dr. Abel and his pictures of SPECT scans are still up on the web, but he had pictures of “normal” brains and the brains of people with different conditions, including bipolar, schizophrenia, and various traumatic brain injuries (including the effects of the specific TBIs on their lives and behavior).
Sometimes it can help with friends and family members to look at the pictures and see in the bright red and blue 3-D outlines of blood flow to various areas of the brain how much difference there is between a bipolar brain and a “normal” brain.
I do have to struggle somewhat with therapists. They tend to think that all feelings arise out of thoughts that you can stop or change or revise. So when I do group classes that involve meditation and we talk about our experiences–I’ve been meditating for years, so I can get to the point where I’m not having “thoughts” per se–and I say I was feeling sad, wanted to start crying, feeling panicky, feeling scared, sometimes maybe experiencing image flashbacks–and they ask what word thoughts I was having….they get very frustrated when I say, “I wasn’t having any words. I was having these emotional sensations without words.”
Psychiatrists “get” that sometimes thoughts do not precede feelings, but a lot of therapists don’t like to believe that that ever happens. Or they don’t know how to cope with a patient when it does. They seem to have trouble with simple acceptance that feelings can precede thoughts–so they kind of make it your “fault” if you’re “still” having “self-limiting” or “self-defeating” or “negative” thoughts get started looping in your head. Well of course you are–the negative feelings are kicking off the negative thought loops. Which doesn’t mean it’s not good and useful to stop/replace the negative thought loops when you notice them–it just means that it’s more important than ever not to self-blame or self-judge that you keep having trouble with those loops getting started!
Hi Julie,
FYI, there are many good pictures of brains on psycheducation.org on the brain chemistry of mood disorders seen here: http://psycheducation.org/mechanism/MechanismIntro.htm I would copy the pictures here but they’re copyright.
I’ve also written about the biological evidence of bipolar disorder here: http://www.healthline.com/health-blogs/bipolar-bites/biological-evidence-bipolar-disorder
I can understand, and have felt, your frustration with therapists. They have a different point of view on emotion than I do and sometimes I think they just can’t understand the reality of a serious mental illness. They can only touch a tiny part of it.
“Psychiatrists “get” that sometimes thoughts do not precede feelings, but a lot of therapists don’t like to believe that that ever happens.”
Yup, exactly.
– Natasha Tracy
Okay, you know who I am but I’ve got a story so a little privacy is probably wise. During a horrible bout of depression I was passed off to some of these spiritual bypass “I’m a guru who writes about Gods of old and I’m psychic but don’t look too closely because you can read it all outside my oversensationalized self” types for a week long in session (one week in a series) of a sort of psychodrama. The process puts one in an altered state by a perfectly legal means that I won’t name for they don’t need any publicity to help them. My therapist wasn’t aware of some of the crap that went on in these sessions. I thought I had pretty much heard it all. Until this amoebic life form looked over at me in the middle of our NEXT group session, after I had attempted suicide and was unconscious for three days after the PREVIOUS session (you had to promise to finish the process with the group-talk about commitment) and she looked me dead on and said “You needed to experience the suicide attempt for your continued healing and spiritual growth.” If I weren’t so completely disheartened and flattened by the shame of being mandated to be with one of my group member laypersons 24/7 a full month after, even though we were all made to sign a waiver saying that no matter what happened we wouldn’t sue, I would have told her what I thought. I might have punched her in the neck. I didn’t have it in me. I lived across the country and this didn’t even happen in a 200 mile radius of their facilities. If I had the strength I might have popped off with ” I’d like to tell you what I think of what might perhaps help YOU with YOUR spiritual growth you monstrous freak of nature.” She even insisted that she psychically felt I was going to do this and did nothing. Thankfully, the organization appears to be sniveling along and drying up.
What is purely hellish are the folks who pedal spirituality and unconditional love for a price knowing full well that some are so damn desperate that they will buy. I’m sure this is akin to some evil that I just don’t understand. Though I try hard to find compassion for everyone I have a hole in my heart with her name on it. The whole thing burned right through.
I’ll bet she thought I created her in my reality-soul contract and all that shit. I actually had no idea. I was too depressed to read the invisible ink code on her forehead that said “I am taking full advantage of the ill and poor in spirit for monetary gain.” Go figure.
Hi T,
I’m so sorry you went through that. I’m sure so many more people could say similar things. It’s beyond sad that people take advantage of those in need, but they do. I’ve had it happen to me too. When you’re desperate, you’ll do desperate things that don’t make any sense when you’re not desperate.
But, you’ve come out the other side now and you’re brave enough to tell the tale. Thank-you. I know other people can identify with it and not feel so alone.
– Natasha Tracy
Oh yes! I had someone say to me: “At least you are not missing a leg. You can get over your depression, but he (the mythical he) will still not have a leg.” Some people have NFI.
Well, no offence to the people without legs, because I’m sure that is incredibly difficult, but how many people die of not-having-leg-itis? Because thousands die of depression.
(And, of course, there is no comparing the two. It’s a ridiculous thing to say.)
– Natasha Tracy
people don’t die of “depression”. They die because they kill themselves. Many people kill themselves because of “non-having-legitis” or “being-paralyzitis” or “going-through-bad-stuffitis”.
I am all for stigma reduction, but if we act as drama queens (comparing our depression to “imagine how you felt when your loved one died” is another pretty too-far gone example that is contraproductive), it is gonna make it worse.
anyways, I’d take being bipolar in the EU over being “normal” in Gaza strip or Malawi. At leastr I have chance for normal life. Those over there… not really that much.
Hi VenusHalley,
Well, I beg to differ. Suicide is a product of illness. Yes, perhaps not every one, but the large majority of them. If the person was not ill, they would not have died. Simple as that.
Depression comes in many forms and many intensities and the intensities I’ve spoken of _do_ exist and are not dramaticized, they may simply not be your experience.
I’m glad you feel more fortunate that others in different situations. We can always find someone worse off than we are. However, I think pain is pain and it doesn’t matter whether it’s coming from your brain or from your environment – it is real.
– Natasha Tracy
My point is people kill themselves because they cannot handle their physical handicaps.
Yes, I can apreciate what I have. Was born in times of late Cold War, with Soviet tanks in the streets… so I try always think of that. It could be much worse… and people lived through it. It helps a lot too.
So I do think perspective matters. I rather be reminded of what good i have and what abilities I have than “oh, yes it sucks, you have “illness” that might kill you… poor you”. From others and from myself.
When I first came down with symptoms of my terminal illness, I couldn’t tell you how many times I was told, “Nothing is wrong, suck it up” or “Quit faking it.” When I was diagnosed, countless people apologized for their comments. Never question someone until you know all the facts. Many of the worst illnesses are not apparent just by looking at someone. (Mine is now because I’m on oxygen full time and can’t hardly walk anymore). Thank you for sharing this!
Hi Daniel,
A terminal illness that people want you to “suck up.” Nice. Apologies are nice, but after that, I would really question their compassion as a human being (but I’m like that).
And you’re right, many illnesses don’t show outwardly and most of us aren’t educated about most illnesses, so I don’t know why some people feel the need to judge someone for something they don’t even know anything about.
How many people still think schizophrenia is a “split personality?” Many. And of course that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
I’m sorry to hear of your illness. Maybe reading this brought you a bit of comfort? At least you know many of us get what you have gotten and are just as annoyed by it.
– Natasha Tracy
Natasha,
Trust me, if I told you the entire story of what the military did to me through this entire illness, you’d be sick to your stomach. It’s that bad. I have zero respect for the people who talked to me like that.
Nobody should be judged. Only God knows why we have these illnesses and we must live with what we are given. People need to respect the delicate nature of hidden illnesses because they can really put someone in a state of depression by saying the wrong thing.
Reading this site has helped me realize that even though I don’t have mental illness, my illness is also hidden and I can absolutely relate. I respect the openness in which you write.
Hi Daniel,
I’m sorry to hear your story is so bad. I don’t think the military is known for treating people with illness, mental or no, in the best way. Which is unfortunate because PTSD is a real problem in the military.
“People need to respect the delicate nature of hidden illnesses because they can really put someone in a state of depression by saying the wrong thing.”
I completely agree. People have no idea the kind of harm they can cause by their insensitive words. I would _always_ be careful around a person’s illness, whether I understood it or not because anyone who is sick is going through enough without me being a jackass on top of it.
I’m really glad to hear this site has helped you. You’re right, just because you don’t have a mental illness, doesn’t mean you can’t relate, and it doesn’t mean I can’t relate to you. Thank-you for your kind words.
– Natasha Tracy
Telling a person with a mental illness to just snap out of it, get over it, etc. is like telling a blind person to just look harder. Can’t remember where I read this but it really resonated with me.
Hi Frettchen,
“telling a blind person to just look harder”
That’s a pretty good comparison.
Thanks.
– Natasha
“… blind person to look harder”….LMAO….Thanks for that nugget of truth…And I think I might actually remember it too.
Thank you for this link! “You create your own reality” really annoys me too. Its supposed to empower people, but too often it dis-empowers people.
There is also an element of those who want to see someone get healthy yet don’t want to get involved. That would be fine if they just didn’t get involved, but too often they say things just like this “you create your own reality” philosophy.
Years ago I also read it said about those in poverty, as mentioned above. It was some new age book by a popular author (who surprisingly is still popular!) which promoted such ideas. I found it startling that the author was blaming the poor for being poor, especially when many are not lazy or crazy, just stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Such ideas work great to remove a sense of responsibility or charity for those who probably care to some level, but not enough of a level.
However when it comes to sickness, like Mental Illness, to tell the person they attract to themselves what they desire – therefore they must desire this illness, enjoy it, turn their power over to it, etc – is so “out there” and unrealistic, that I sometimes wonder if these Sayers may need to go get a medical evaluation themselves. :) In any case, its surely not nice.
As the mother of a bipolar 33 year old grown-up kid, my experience is that some who started to care, read some new age books or took mini seminars, viewed themselves as now having some on-high knowledge, rare, unique, and cool. Next have gone to her house to help her out – only to quit ever so quickly because they discover its not as easy as they thought. I have no problem with them going to her house or helping, if they actually were giving her what “she” needed – medically.
Real compassion and help comes thru dedicated education and realistic involvement – as well as to be honest how much they can genuinely give their time and help to another. I try to be appreciative of the many well-wishers who have pitched in, but they can give her false hopes when in a few weeks they are gone…saying God knows what to others in the neighborhood where she all ready (sometimes) is concerned what has been said about her..
Education is a way out, only it must be a real eduction in this specified field, and not call it “dis-ease” putting it in the category of emotional, when its more ‘disease’ or the category of physical (chemical imbalances, etc) revealing the patient can’t just say or think positive words to talk themeslves out of it.
And no one should refer to it as something they attracted to themselves, as you will often find a genetic component or some other physical reason like a car crash, hormonal imbalance, child birth, medicines that clashed and brought it on…something those drawn to new age don’t want to see.
Though I am not putting down all who like new age, because everything has something to offer. I admit to finding some value in such teachings. But fully and always right? No. And to try to use it to diagnose is unfair and can even be hurtful to the mentally ill person they want to help. Best form of help is to find out facts of their needs, often from someone with experience in this field. From there genuine help can be given, from there it may not be as easy as first thought, but it will be sincere when such a choice is made.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. It was surprising to me how first no one wanted to help my kid, than quite a few well meaning people stepped in but would not take advice from me (I had all ready been thru it a bunch of times, and spoke with her doctors on the phone, read books on it, practically had to be her therapist for a long time, etc). However,they had their own agendas. Soon when their agendas and philosophies did not pan out, they left, and my daughter was alone trying to manage this disease again.
I forgive all such well-intended people, but hope this post will help any such reader only get involved if they first get sufficiently educated in the reality of an at-home-patients needs, not what sounds cool or amazing with rainbows and puppy dog tails. Now if sugar and spice works, I’m for it, send some my way too. :) Until then, we need medical knowledge from psychiatrists, we need counselors who are experienced “working with the mentally ill.” Plus, those counselors should be able to show a good track record for successfully working with them [such as ways to get them to take their meds or get them on the right meds, help them remember to pay their bills, help them move forward in life via relationships with family and how to find a good sane partner – not the rainbow stuff I know, but needed stuff in our case, my daughter forgot how to do.]
Thanks for listening.
L.I.
Don’t worry about replying to the above, it’s just what not to say to a BiPolar Hehe.
The Secret:
Had a chap tell me all about this amazing DVD he wanted to lend me that had changed his life so completely ….. blah blah blah so I said I’d borrow it and take a look. (I have my own copy of the Secret, for what reason I don’t know) anyway the tile came up and hey presto, was I surprised when I saw how this alcoholic gigalo’s (and that’s true by the way) life had been turned 180% by this DVD. G-d knows what it was like before!
I don’t care to even start mentioning the diagnoses I have, they are endless, and have gone through all the “what have you to be so sad about’s” and “he didn’t really try kill himself .. he was just looking for attention” – not breathing, no heatbeat, on advanced life support machines in ICU not counting of course, but hey it’s just a cowardly way thing to do anything, the bastard can’t face up to life and uses words like DEPRESSION to get away with it! I’m getting worked up now, so I’ll end there. Stupid assholes!
Hi Barry,
Yes, I’ve been given “life-altering” videos too. Oddly, my life has not bee altered. Well, other than to find the whole thing tedious, pointless and somewhat depressing.
Yes, some people can be thoughtless, but in some cases they are trying to help and in others they are just plain ignorant.
– Natasha
BTW – I’m BiPolar so I do have room to make comments in jest!
Hey dude, you bounce your head off the wall today? or was that the roof, the floor …?
Have some ECT? Well then you don’t remember jack anyway ha ha
Love me, love me not? Oh am I confusing you?
Bravo.
Thanks to the Law of Attraction and a stunning lack of critical thinking, this “you create your own reality” nonsense has been the go-to explanation for all the world’s ills since at least the 1970’s. And thanks to The Secret, we’re seeing a resurgence of overly simplistic explanations for complex problems. What amuses me the most is when people preach this drivel using phrases like “quantum mechanics.” Apparently the movie What the Bleep Do We Know makes cutting edge scientists out of magical-thinking boobs.
Oh Holly, such a great comment, I think I love you.
Yes, the freakin’ Secret promoted by Queen Oprah. Beyond frustrating.
– Natasha
Yup, it's a classic really.
Like Anon above, One of my personal favorites is "What do you have to be depressed about?"
Hi Anon,
Yup, many of us have heard that one.
Education does dispel such things though. Sometimes we can help promote such education.
– N
Oh my GOD I totally relate to this!!!! I'm diagnosed Bipolar 1, social anxiety, and post traumatic stress disorder. For the past year, I've been suffering a major depressive episode and it seems like no one in my life truely understands how hard it can be. Everyone looks at me like I'm nuts, says "how can you be like this? You're life is almost perfect, and youre still depressed? Just get over it!!!"
You're right on. If they actually took the time to learn about this disorder, maybe they would know what the hell they're talking about!!!
I am also dignosed with sevier chronic depression/sevier chronic Bpolor– anxity disorder–behavoral disorder-just about any disorder–IN past times the dept of the deep had no end and mania would start with reading, putting in place–spiritual highs leading to seeing images-hearing and praying to the heights of the heighest of essens.lead to the point of no return not to say they did not bring me back ect–had them twice with each one of several treatments I had this for 34 years of each being of different. Been stable for 6 years having some eposoids which I can control with my medication. NOw I choose to live with little stress as possable –low key I am happier because I am in control not saying it’s not a battle
Hi Audrey,
Wow. That sounds like a pretty severe mania. I haven’t had anything close. I wonder what it’s like, personally, but I’m sure it’s no fun, it’s just my curious nature.
I know people get diagnosed with all sorts of stuff, Especially over the course of 34 years. Our knowledge then was so tiny compared to what it is today.
It’s amazing to hear that you have bee stable for 6 years after 34 for with such instability. That’s amazing. It’s a testament to you and your health care team. Continuing to try for 34 years is amazing. My hat’s off to you. Congratulations.
I agree that decreasing stress is key, if you can do it. That’s just such a tough thing to do for so many people.
– Natasha
Anon,
I swear, if someone said that to me, I would be hard pressed not to movie-slap them right across the face.
– N
Well said – and I love the original list. I must say, I have a number 12:
Are you sure it isn't just "that time of month"?
Hi Anon,
Well, to be fair, I don't think I would know what to say to someone with cancer. True, there's more awareness about it, but it definitely wouldn't be easy.
Yes, self-indulgent is bad. I'm not feeling terribly indulged.
Thanks.
– N
People who haven't walked in our shoes just don't get it. One of my children (I have 3) understands it because she has been present when I have had episodes and in hospital, but the other two don't want to believe that Mom has a mental disorder. I find that most people still in this day and age and even with bipolar getting a lot of attention are still not yet comfortable addressing mental illness and so there still remains a stigma of sorts because people just don't want to know or know what to say. Tell them you have cancer, then that is easy for them to comprehend and to find the right words for.
One of the worst things I have have had said to me, was that I was "self indulgent". Needless to say, that was the end of a beautiful friendship. Loved your comments, they are right on!
I can see some people identify.
Mike, thanks. I like to think I can identify shovels. What amazes me is how unwilling other people are to do so.
– N
~N
What I like most about your writting (either here on the Burble or Breaking Bipolar) is; you are never afraid to call a spade a fucking shovel.
Well said
Translation: "Delude yourself into thinking you're not sick and everything is just fine." Well, positive thinking is great – to a point – but only when you're in control over your thought process. Telling a sprinter with cinder blocks chained to his ankles, 'just run a little harder,' will not help in the slightest bit.
Hi Everyone,
Was surfing the depression sites in desperation and frustration to see if I could make some sense of myself… First smile Ive had today reading your comments.. I agree with it all..
What are we depressed about, Get over it, Get on with it (thats a good one, Im forever fighting and getting on with it but a bit of understanding wouldnt go astray….I think sometimes our boyfriends are the worst, ignorance is the best defence for them. They want us to get better by just hoping we will without any encouragement or support… No matter how many ads or community support for depression there is, there is still a stigma, its embarrassing and in the end we become good actors, not sharing, just doing and suffering in silence. And just a word on suicide, I love it after a funeral when the people who call themselves close say ‘why did he/she do it, if it was that bad they couldve talked to me….. Bulshit!!! Theyre the sort that have a bad day and tell everyone their depressed… I hate how that word is flung around so freely….. Anyway I could go on forever just really wanted to say you all made my day…Oh shall i sign off with another good one…… Comeon everyone Cheer up!!!!! duh!!!!!