Do you ever feel like people discount your opinion because you have bipolar? Have you ever had the experience where someone simply steamrolls over what you’re saying because they feel it’s not important because you have bipolar? Once someone found out you had bipolar, did they suddenly decide what you said didn’t matter? Have you found that people discount opinions of those with bipolar?
Opinions and Bipolar Disorder
I am the first to admit that bipolar can seep into every aspect on one’s life and this include one’s opinions. Yes, my thoughts can be affected by not only my bipolar mood but also by the experiences I’ve had because of the bipolar. For example, if I’m depressed, my opinions will often be bleak and self-deprecating because I’m feeling negative and self-hating thanks to my bipolar depression. But just because my words have been fundamentally shaped by my bipolar disorder, does that mean they should be discounted? Does this mean they have no validity?
Validating One’s Emotions
Because look, here’s the thing, every single person needs to have his or her emotions validated regardless as to how reasonable or unreasonable they are. For example, if a person is going through a divorce and feels that they will never love again, no matter how unreasonable that feeling might be, its realness to the person needs to be validated. “Yes, I hear you. I understand you feel that way today. That sounds very hard.”
Discounting Opinions of Those with Bipolar
And the same thing goes for the thoughts, feelings and opinions of those with bipolar. We’re like everyone else. We need to be validated both on an emotional level and on a personal one. When you discount our opinions, you are essentially discounting us. You are saying that because we are our bipolar, what we say means nothing. When, of course, we all know that we are people first and an illness second (or fourth or 22nd or what have you, depending on who you are).
So if you know someone with bipolar, or any mental illness, remember that our opinion counts just as much as yours does. True, you may not understand where we’re coming from – and that’s okay – but we still need you to pay attention to what we’re saying and not discount our opinions because of bipolar. It doesn’t mean you have to agree with us; it doesn’t mean that you have to get on board when our opinions truly don’t make sense; but it does mean that you have to give us the space to express our own reality – even if it is heavily influence by an illness.
Image by Flickr user Steven Shorrock.
Sadly, the only people who have discounted my opinion because I have bipolar disorder are some of the doctors that treated me for bipolar disorder. I’m not imagining this. My primary care physician treated me fine, but shrinks…holy hell is it hard to find one that didn’t treat me like crap and steamroll over everything I said. I had to go through many doctors until I found one who listens rather than blames, objects, or downright belittles me.
I just wanted to find a place to comment. I wanted to take the time to say how I appreciate this website. I am currently under the “gun” for bipolar/major depressive disorder and understand the hell. These articles are so well written and comes from someone I can relate with. The first article I read was, “How a bipolar person thinks.” It was like looking in a mirror in every section of that article. I have referred several people to this website. I ve mentioned it once or twice on my blog. You don’t want to see it, its super random and opinionated. Not my article about you, just in general. I sent it to my mom, who was discounting the fact I have these issues. Now, shes leaves me alone. Continue writing your articles. They are realistic and well written. :)
Hi Scott,
Thank you so much. Happy to have helped :)
– Natasha Tracy
No one any longer discounts my opinion becuase I dont give one. Screw them. I live on a razor blade with a highly tuned balancing Act. I dont have the time for people who lack empathy and compassion and have a righteous dogmatic view of the world and have labeled me based on ignorance instead of fact. They have the illness, not I.
When i speak with my partner i am immediately discounted as being ‘crazy’ ‘retarded’ ‘physco’ ‘spastic’ ‘needing to be locked up’ or my favorite ‘have you taken your tablet today’.
I’m left in a world of fear to say anything until i get so low and lash out and then i look ‘crazy’ – tonight i stood up and spoke my mind calmly and honestly and stood my ground – now my partner tells me i have to leave because my doctor has filled my head with ideas of being able to be assertive.
being bipolar seems to be a death sentence – a life of misery until its to much anymore.
I have Partial Complex Seizures that since entering Peri-menopause, have become more Partial and less Complex. I’ve had them since 2007, after a hideous car wreck.
I’ve been seen by no less than 5 Neurologists since… the last being a Epipleptiologist (?sp – specialist in only Epilepsy). In October 2014 – my initial consultation – he diagnosed me with – Neurological Seizures. He started me on Keppra and Keppra helped for a while until I developed a burning blistering itchy scaly rash on both legs. I reported the rash; he didn’t believe it was the Keppra.
I took Keppra for a bit longer and the rash intensified; turned bloody and scabby. So, I stopped the Keppra myself and weaned off. The cluster seizures returned. I notified him. He agreed, reluctantly, with me and wanted me to wait till I saw him again before starting anything new. I saw him again in July 2015 because he is well known and has very few open appointments.
I went nearly 2 months with no medication for what he diagnosed as neurological seizures because he wanted to see me first before initiating any new med. I found out why.
In July of 2015, when I saw him the 2nd time… he had received a very lengthy list of many many anti-depressants, a few anti-psychotics, and a mood stabilizer or two. At that 2nd visit he noted “well, we are just not entirely sure what may be your issue at this moment and I do not want to prescribe any further medications to you that are dangerous to take if you do not actually have seizures. The medications can cause non-reversible damage, perhaps even death and I do not feel safe in prescribing any further medications until we know exactly what is happening.”
He, only the 3rd of the 5 Neuros I’d seen to tell me how dangerous the meds are if I didn’t actually have seizures. The same meds that psychiatrists prescribe to patients for years on end, in many cases and I told the 3 Neuros (1 being him).
I nailed him, metaphorically, to the wall as to why and what changed his mind from his initial consult and adamant diagnosis to this 2nd visit and oddly, not knowing what they were now?
The list of medication trials, over a course of many years.
So, he no longer felt confident that I had actual neurological seizures… perhaps psychosomatic… and I’ve been having the seizures ever since. I had one on Monday that caused me to take a header off a short flight of stairs and face plant myself upon my hardwood flooring. I broke my nose in 2 places and lacerated my right eye socket requiring stitches.
The ER doc asked what happened? I told her.. I had a seizure. She wanted to know about medication? I told her. She wanted to know about the diagnosis of seizures… I told her.
She sutured my laceration and told me to contact the Neurologist.
Why? He was the 5th and the specialist specializing in… he discounted his own diagnosis and admitted… cause of the list of psychiatric med trials I’d been on.
me again….just wanted to add that the above will now be my inspiration to be counted…didn’t even realise what
i was allowing to be done to myself!!!!!
Hi there all
Shay ,i agree with the “nodding along” as I read the blog and the comments..
Thank you all
I am 48 years old and have suffered from bipolar depression since I was a teenager. I have been on several medications (don’t seem to help) make me feel like a zombie or have very bad mood swings. I started having problems socializing with people in my early 20’s, but use to be able to avoid those situations. Now it is so bad that I am not able to have jobs where I am around people. I have had a job for 1 1/2, but it is only because I work by myself. The last 10 years I have totally isolated myself from everyone. Me and my husband became like strangers. The last 3 years have been traurmic for me. My Mom had a stroke (she was my support), now I can hardly communicate with her. Then my husband wanted me to move in with his mom because of her health issues. I knew it wouldn’t work out but I agreed. Lived there for 1 1/2 and it completely broke me down mentally. Me and her got to where we didn’t talk in the same house, and eventually started arguing. I moved out and in with my Mom for 3 months. I own a house, but was renting it. I asked the people to move so I could move back in. I thought my husband would move back in with me, but he said he couldn’t desert his Mom. After I moved in my house I realized I am totally alone. I have no friends, family (besides my mom), don’t talk to my 2 sisters. I have become very suicidual. I called my husband one morning and told him I wanted to die. He came over, but after that I didn’t hear from him for 5 days. I finally decided to totally end the relationship. I am so scared of being alone. I don’t have any kids. I want to make new friends, but I have isolated myself for so long, I am not sure how to even start. I wish I had someone to support me. I have not had health insurance for 7 years. My husband slowly watched me crumble before his eyes. He wouldn’t even put me on his health insurance. Now I am finally getting ready to get health insurance through my job, but I don’t believe meds will help me. I am not sure what to do. I hope I can make it in this life.
Dear Michelle, I can definitely understand where you are coming from, with no friends, no family. My family was not supportive, and we fought a lot until my dad got Alzheimer’s and became friendly. That was because Mother gave him antidepressants because he’d become violent. But after that, he was like a kitten or puppy — very cheerful, When I got divorced in a medium sized city, I discovered that city was no place for a single, divorced woman. There was nothing there I could do or relate to, so I moved to larger city. It took me a long time to find a close friend, but maybe you can find one or more faster than I did because maybe the experiences I’m going to relate MAY help. First of all, I started cleaning up my neighborhood by eliminating graffiti. I worked hard at that, and did successfully improve our neighborhood A LOT. I was invited then to join the neighborhood association , and I did for a while. In this city I finally found competent, professional mental health help, which I’d been trying to get for decades, including in high school, with no results. There was a mental health drop in center at that clinic, which I became actively involved with. I made some friends there, and eventually found a best friend , “Y” there. I had told the therapist I had at that time that I would like to be Y’s friend. He said, “Well, why don’t you ask her if she wants a new friend?” This had never occurred to me — that a person could actually say that to someone. When I asked her, she said Yes. Then she introduced me to some of her other friends. I named our little gang “Party Pals,” and we still have get togethers once in a while, playing card or board games, going out to eat, etc. Now, over 15 years later, that wonderful friend Y has passed away, but I’m still close to two of her/our other friends. Well, I don’t know if you have the funds or insurance to pay for therapy, or a group, or if you can find a community mental health center that will take you on a sliding scale. I hope you can. It’s the most wonderful thing in the world to find a place like that. Eventually, my psychiatrist there told me that I was so improved in my mental health that he advised me to stop going to the drop in center so often. Eventually I stopped going altogether because the center would no longer take Social Security payments. (This is criminal, as far as I’m concerned! But they did, and they still don’t take Social Security.) Finally, though, I have become very active in the community in my city. I do a lot of things. I’m active about civic affairs. I learned to do art, in Art Therapy at the clinic. I have found a lot of free events in town. Hiking in the parks in nice weather; going to free theater productions and volunteering as an usher at others to get in free. There are so many wonderful things in this life. I do hope you’ll find some of them. IOne thing that is highly recommended by a lot of mental health experts is to make a list of things you were passionate about when you were very little. Watching the ducks? Growing flowers of buying a bouquet as a present for yourself once in a while? Cooking? Baking? Making pies? How about learning to knit and join a group to make hats and scarves for homeless people? In a book by a runner, I found a comment by the author: “The hardest thing to do is to take the first step in the thing you love most.”
Hi Michelle,
It sounds like you’ve really had a rough go. If you’re feeling suicidal, please call a mental health or suicide hotline or go to a crisis centre. You don’t have to suffer alone.
I know from my own experience it can be difficult to change from so much isolation back to a more social way of life. Baby steps are usually easiest. Don’t put a time frame on yourself – each person makes change at their own pace. As long as you feel like you are moving forward at a pace that you are comfortable with, then you are succeeding. It’s okay to have off days as well. Change isn’t easy, but it’s usually worth the effort.
I find getting involved in activities I enjoy or have wanted to try helps. If you like to read, for example, joining a book club might be an option. Volunteering is another great way to meet people while doing something you enjoy for a cause or organization you believe in. Take it slowly. I started out by going to coffee shops with a book ot my laptop, and hiking in parks. Even if I didn’t talk much, it helped re-acclimatize me to being around people. Staying at home was the worst thing for me. Be patient. It takes time to build healthy friendships. Another option is to look into mental health organizations. Many have free support groups and social activities. If you live in Canada, try the Canadian Mental Health Association or the Mood Disorders Association of Canada. Look for established, not-for-profit agencies. This is especially helpful if finances are tight.
Another option is to try and get a referral to a social worker or mental health case manager. They specialize in working with the mental health system and can help you access services that you may not know about or may have difficulty accessing on your own. Depending on where you live, you may need a doctor or other professional’s refeŕral. Do some research and see what your options are.
I also found cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) very helpful in changing negative behaviours and thought patterns to positive ones. Look for a therapist who has actually had CBT training. Often social workers will also be trained in CBT or they may be able to help yoy access it. Even if you are told there is a waiting list, whether for a therapist, social worker or anything else, put yourself on that list. Eventually your turn will come, and that’s better than doing nothing at all.
I wish you the best of luck!
Thoughts, experience, knowledge, perception of my own reality and my opinions all discounted due to a Mental Illness Diagnosis made known to others? Yes.
I’ve been around on a few “Bipolar” forums and whatnot for years now…. and I’ve seen, read and heard a many a perception of specifically Bipolar by many who do not have nor even try to understand, Bipolar. I’ve had some, self-supposed experts, offer their opinions that those with Bipolar have absolutely no concept of their very own reality and live within a diluted mentally ill twisted world… to paraphrase a few, over the years.
I’ve read and heard, a many loved ones of those with Bipolar, go on and on ad nausea of how horrid those with Bipolar actually are.. how difficult it is to love and care for those with Bipolar… how insidious those with Bipolar are to twist and turn every detail of life and living…
oh for the want to NOT have a mental illness
I’ve only had the Bipolar diagnosis, for roughly 10 years now. For 20+ odd years prior; I was just Recurring Major Depressive and Anxiety and PTSD.
While Bipolar was so prevalent a diagnosis back 10 years ago… is on all my medical records now (thanks to electronic medical info sharing ability amongst medical providers)… I am now being re-thought as to what is actually the issue… so many in the psych field now not so sure what is and what isn’t… in my personal experience. This comes from the absolute lack and non-existence of any form of diagnostic tool to specify mental illness, much less, Bipolar.
Mental Illness is an illness but it is not a physically detectable or diagnosable illness. It is wholly based on symptoms described by the one with and those surrounding and all of that is based on perception… of the one detailing.
The illness is completely and totally individualized to the one who supposedly is diagnosed with… no 2 individuals have the same Bipolar and the diagnosis, like other mental diagnoses, are based on the knowledge skill and experience of the clinician on hand from the many books and DSM… all of which; so many symptoms described and detailed so overlap so many other diagnoses and disorders… I mean even nasty Personality Disorders have overlapping symptoms with Mental Disorders.
Still; I am continually thought to be mentally ill. It is true; it’s all in our heads.
Medical providers discount my seizures and label them as psychosomatic with not a bit of a medical scan.. because I have a long psych history and many many med trials (since I was 7). My primary care provider just smiles when I come in with any “pain” issues due to my crippling Osteoarthritis (viewable on an actual radiology scan). My Carpal Tunnel return is just my stress manifesting and Psych providers discount my description of deteriorating mental symptoms when I am de-compensating with suicidal depression..
Oh and then there are my employers… my employers, for when I’ve been forced to disclose.. then look for ways to minimize me and list me for layoffs or let go’s at the first opportunity (for whatever simplistic or insignificant thing that had been totally okay, up till).
So, yes… my thoughts and opinions, my knowledge and experience, my self-awareness and ability…. all discounted by many varieties of people…
but will I just assimilate and “fit in” with the world, at large… and drug myself into a stupor (which has happened, time and again), to make myself so much more docile and “manageable”… to just be “acceptable” to everyone surrounding?
No.
I’d rather be dead.
Dear Tabby, your post is so very sad. I do want to express my opinion on this sentence in your post, although you may not agree with me here: You wrote: “This comes from the absolute lack and non-existence of any form of diagnostic tool to specify mental illness, much less, Bipolar.” Bipolar disorder symptoms have been documented for literally thousands of years, and particularly during the 19th century. It is the summation of these symptoms that are used for diagnosis and treatment of bipolar disorder, in the DSM , the diagnostic medical tool that’s used today. Before this tool, and the amazing medications we have today, people literally died of exhaustion from the mania stage, and/or spent their entire lives in institutions for “melancholia.” . This is well documented. Various “survivors” and such organizations claim that “meds kill.” As for me, I’d rather have a decent life, and risk such dangerous side effects in my old age. So far I have not had life threatening side effects, but I do know a woman who that happened to. She’s in her late 60s and has kidney failure after 25 years on meds. I’m 73 and have been on meds for 18 years. Like you, though, I had symptoms since I was a child, and was sent to a psychologist when I was 12, and later to a psychiatrist when a teen. For 56 years I tried to get help for my misery. Finally did.
There is not one blood test to “see” and pinpoint and diagnose, mental illness. There is not one CT scan, X-ray, Urine test or MRI that “sees” and pinpoints and specifically denotes mental illness and to even further specify, what kind of mental illness, a person may be suffering.
There isn’t one.. not a one… not a one.
Just 3 weeks ago I sat in front of yet another clinical diagnostician and gave, yet again, a verbal recant of my very long and varied psych history. My symptoms in the past, my symptoms as they were at the time of sitting… description of my “ups” and a description of my “downs”… a lengthy recall of so utter many medications and what they did and didn’t do….
and the diagnostician wanted to know why I thought I had Bipolar, who had diagnosed me, how long had they treated me for it?
She wouldn’t say what she thought my matter was… “not in the first visit”. Funny; that’s how I’ve been diagnosed for years – within the first visit.
Yet… not a blood test, pee in the small plastic cup, nor did I have to undress to have a radiological exam. Not a one and in all of that discussion and summation… she thought I needed the latest televised and well marketed medication known, Latuda. Oh how I remember the onslaught of marketing for Seroquel and Risperdal, not so many years ago.
Latuda is one of those meds that costs near $200 or more, per month, is an anti-psychotic originally created for adult schizophrenia but now is prescribed for a host of symptoms. Sug even had samples to give me to get started on so as to not have to spend so much money on something that I may not be able to handle biologically. I won’t be able to handle the cost of it, neither, but what they hey? It’s a med.
By the way:
You just supported my sentence that you disagreed with… by stating that “Bipolar symptoms have been documented for literally thousands of years, and particularly during the 19th century. It is the summation of these symptoms that are used for the diagnosis and treatment of bipolar disorder, in the DSM, the diagnostic medical tool that’s used today.”
Documentation and summation… yep.
Hi Tabby,
One of the difficulties we all face when we have mental health issues is that the brain and the mind are still somewhat of a mystery. Most mental illness diagnoses shouldn’t rely strictly on blood tests. Some things, like a low thyroid can be tested for in that manner. One of the symptoms of a low-functioning thyroid is depression.
You should never be “diagnosed” on your first visit to a new doctor/psyhiatrist/psychologist, even if they have your entire medical file. I was mis-diagnosed twice before getting the correct diagnosis. Any professional worth their salt will see you for several sessions to make their assessment. I would be extremely nervous around someone who diagnoses me in less than four sessions. While they may get an idea of what’s wrong fairly quickly, a lot of mental illnesses have overlapping symptoms and it takes time to assess a mental illness correctly. Keep in mind, as well, it is common for mental illnesses to change over time, as you get older. Different medications and psychological therapies may be needed. Last year my GP referred me to be re-assesed by a different psychiatrist. While he eventually confirmed the original diagnosis, he saw me for a few months first to get to know me and better be able to analyze my behavioural and thought patterns.
It’s unfortunate you have had some negative experiences. Try to keep in mind that there are good psychiatrists and psychologists out there. Psychotherapists are not necessarily qualified to diagnose you, neither are general practitioners or genral diagnosticians. Ideally, look for psychiatrists or psychologists that specialize in your disorder or symptoms.
We all know how frustrating it is to have to relay over and over again our symptoms and experiences with other professionals, but currently, it is the best way to do it.
I am definitely an outspoken, tell it how it is kinda gal. Always have been and probably always will be, except when it comes to the fact that I suffer from a mental illness. I don’t normally believe in keeping secrets but in the case of mental illness I do, especially around others who don’t have a mental illness and therefore can’t possibly understand what it’s like. I believe that stigma and prejudice will always survive in some form or an other in the world just like poverty will as well. I want people to get to know me first and telling them that I have a mental illness gets in the way. Some things are just better left unsaid. If I had HIV or an STD I wouldn’t think it wise or appropriate to tell people either unless they were a doctor and I wanted or needed their help. To compare a physical illness like cancer or diabetes to a mental illness like bipolar or schizophrenia is like comparing fruit to some other category of food. It’s a illness for sure but it’s just NOT the same and never will be. You can go on with your ‘I have a dream’ speech and marches like Martin Luther King did (of course ours would be more relevant to the stigma surrounding mental illness) but I honestly doubt that it’s going to make much of a difference in this day and age and quite frankly I’m not up for the fight. I barely have enough energy to get through my day… I have often said and it is worth repeating, the only way we have a chance of changing people’s negative views about mental illness is with our own behaviour. Work with your doctor, take meds as prescribed, get some help from therapy, etc and do your best to fit in like everybody else in the world who struggles with life is also trying their best to do…
I think it’s very interesting to see the different opinions we all have regarding being bipolar and how we handle it. It amazes me that for a single illness there can be such a wide range of ways that both we perceive it and how non-mentally ill people perceive it and us.
I do agree that there will probably always be a percentage of the population that will choose to react in fear to mental illness. However, I also believe that stigma is nothing more than the love-child of fear and ignorance (and is a kissing cousin of racism). As such, I believe that education can go a long way to reducing it. And by education, I mean it needs to not just be us talking about it. In addition, I think governments and schools need to do more to help educate the population about mental illness on a general level, with us talking about the specifics. In popular forms of media, we are often portrayed negatively and in a cookie-cutter fashion. How will that change if we don’t speak out?
I have been fortunate in that while I do continue to face stigma around my mental illness on occasion, most of my friends and family have been very supportive of me.
While I rarely walk up to someone and say, “Hi, I’m Randi, I’m bipolar. What’s your flavour of crazy?” I generally am quite open about it if it happens to come up in conversation. In fact, I like to talk about it and answer questions. I don’t expect that I can change people’s minds when they are closed, but I do hope that I can at least give people something to think about. I generally don’t look, sound or act like what many people’s pre-conceived notions of “crazy” are, and while that can someimes work against me when I’m actively looking for help, it also can go a long way to helping me show people that some of their pre-conceived notions may be faulty.
I would never expect every person with a mental illness to be an activist, but I think that those of us who feel comfortable talking about it and want to promote change can do a lot of good by speaking up and speaking out. It takes time to change attitudes, especially around issues that can be scary or controversial. Personally, I believe the greatest way to reduce fear, stigma and discrimination is to talk about it; for us to learn as much as we can about our individual diagnoses and about ourselves, and then, if the opportunity arises and only if we feel comfortable doing so, share what we have learned.
I don’t advocate proselytizing, please understand. I hate when people do that to me. But if I have the opportunity to share what I have learned, I will do so, in the hope that my story might have a positive impact on whomever is willing to listen.
It takes time for change to come about. How long have scientists been trying to warn everyone about climate change? Recycling, for example, has been around in one form or another for centuries, but really became a public issue in North America in the 1970’s. It didn’t really seem to become accepted and mainstream until perhaps the 1990’s or even later.
If anyone is uncomfortable about being public about mental illness, that is absolutely okay. We all go through periods in our lives when it’s just about keeping our heads down and getting through the day. But I absolutely will not let anyone make me feel ashamed for having an illness. No matter what the diagnosis is, no matter how well or poorly we feel, it takes strength, courage and determination to live with ANY illness. People can stigmatize us until they are blue in the face. I am proud of my accomplishments, and I will not let anyone take that away from me.
Hi Randi and all, I used to be a mental health activist. I was public, too. Our major newspaper contacted me and two other bipolar people who were “out” and interviewed us for a large article. They wanted our photos to post. The other two people said that was fine with them. I said No Picture, because I figured the paper would make us “look crazy,” which then did with my two friends. That was 18 years ago, before the internet. That was fine then — it’s not fine now, for me anyway. Once or twice some goon hash posted that very article on the internet. So when I googled my name, what did I see???? That article publicly and permanently identifying me as having bipolar disorder. Fortunately I was able to get the poster to remove the article. I don’t go public anymore, after several very harmful experiences directed at me ONLY BECAUSE I was “out.” So anyway, that’s my experience. And of course, like you say, each of us is very different, has different experiences and descriptions, etc etc
It’s a kind of bigotry aimed at any person with a mental illness.
After I retired (disability due to bipolar) I figured I no longer had a job to lose in talking openly about bipolar and any mental illness. It was my opinion that being public about it would further understanding in my community. I thought I could speak out on behalf of those who could not safely speak for themselves. Boy was I wrong!
The worst culprits have been family members, believe it or not. My opinions are completely discredited, and in legal matters my mental capacity to make decisions has been challenged by family with whom I had previously had what appeared to be good relationships. I have become a second-class citizen, and they’ve made sure it is spread far and wide.
So yeah. My opinions, my character, everything is discounted. My advice is, as long as you’re alive, NEVER EVER let anyone know you have bipolar. It will ruin your life.
Hi Paul,
“The worst culprits have been family members, believe it or not.” Oh, I believe it alright because I am living it too. I’ve long noticed my opinions are only discredited when they differ from my sister’s and I dare to speak up about it. About 95% of the time our opinions are either in sinc or not worth speaking up about – then I’m a wonderful, caring supportive sister. But if I disagree with almost anything she says…I’m discounted as “just nuts.” This selective discounting of my opinions speaks far more about her shortcomings than mine.
Somewhere I read about families who generally appear supportive, but tend to view people as responsible for their disabling illnesses – these families tend to act punitively and feel shamed and angry about having any MI in the family. They tend to blame and criticize the MI sufferer. That’s my extended family in a nutshell, though thankfully, my spouse, our adult children and their spouses are very supportive – I also have several good long term friends who are very supportive too, and we have plenty of fun together.
As far as coming out to new people, be it with jobs or friendships, I agree with you that staying in the closet is the best course. I learned that the hard way too – and relearned it again & again. I vow not to make that mistake ever again either. I’m tired of people having it both ways regarding my intellect and decisions, according to what serves their purpose best at any particular moment.
Have a good day Paul, and I wish you peace.
Dear Patricia Louise and Paul, Patricia wrote, and this sounds exactly like my extended family, and I also have supportive immediate family and friends. “Somewhere I read about families who generally appear supportive, but tend to view people as responsible for their disabling illnesses – these families tend to act punitively and feel shamed and angry about having any MI in the family. They tend to blame and criticize the MI sufferer. That’s my extended family in a nutshell, though thankfully, my spouse, our adult children and their spouses are very supportive – I also have several good long term friends who are very supportive too, and we have plenty of fun together.”
It takes a lot of courage to speak publicly about having a mental illness. There is always the risk of stigma and discrimination. But there is also always the hope that we will have a positive impact on the person or people listening. When we do talk about mental illness, we will sometimes be met with negativity, even from long-time friends and family, and that is absolutely heart-breaking. I think that because mental illness is a very scary concept for many people. It is common knowledge that there often is a genetic component, and it may be that family members may be afraid that will they will get it too. It may help to remind them that mental illness is not contagious. There is no such thing as “crazy cooties”. Sometimes people need to be reminded that just because you have a mental illness it doesn’t mean that they will too.
There is a lot of misinformation online and even published in books and magazines. Excellent starting points for online research that I use include the Canadian Mental Health Association, the Mood Disorders Association of Canada and the World Health Organization. Those are usually the ones I recommend first, and then follow the links from there. There are a lot of very good non-profit mental health websites. It also helps to point out to people that if they see,hear or read sonething that sounds sensationalistic or fear-mongering, it may be just that.
For me, if something like that happens and the person absolutely will not open their mind, then that is not someone I want in my life. I do my best to surround myself with open-minded and supportive people. This does mean that I have had to make some very painful decisions about whether or not to cut certain people out of my life altogether or drastically minimize how often I see that person. I have significantly reduced the number of people in my support network over the years, and it can take time to find new friends, but it is worth the effort. My number one priority is my mental health. I’m no use to myself or anyone else if I let other people make me feel badly about myself.
When I do speak publicly or even with people who already know, I always consider first the posssible consequences of doing so. Am I willing to deal with any potential fallout? Why do I want to talk about it with this person or group of people? Is it appropriate to the situation or context of the conversation? What do I hope to achieve? When I do speak, I try to choose my words carefully. Not everyone wants to know every detail, nor do I tell every detail. The benefit of being open to whatever degree you feel comfortable is that you learn very quickly who is willing to stand in your corner, who is willing to learn about your illness and who is toxic.
In an ideal world, we would all be applauded and called heroes for speaking out and trying to make a positive difference in the world. Sometimes that happens and sometimes it doesn’t.
I absolutely love your blog. Every time I read one I find myself nodding along in agreement. Your opinions have definitely been validated and are brilliant! ♡
As others have said, I too was often told I was overreacting even before my diagnosis (at age 45). The worst case of having my opinion devalued, however, hasn’t been from family or friends. It has been from health care providers–not only primary providers, but even mental health providers. Right now I am not under any type of psychiatric care because I am heartily sick of a provider who doesn’t listen to me–who chooses instead to treat me according to her preconceived, cookie-cutter notion of treating this incredibly complex disease. Despite the fact that I’ve only been in her care since moving to Maine three years ago, she believes that she understands my illness better than I do. After two years of being prescribed medications that I couldn’t afford–all of which had side effects that were worse than the bipolar itself–and pleading with her to work with me instead of “on” me, I gave up.
I was a bit vague in my comment above, which makes it seem off-topic. What I meant was that even my provider discounts my opinions about pretty much everything, but especially about my condition. My response to years of being told I’m overreacting or misinterpreting–as if anyone CAN misinterpret their own thoughts and beliefs–has been to go take pains to express myself as logically as possible. I’ve been accused of being “at the mercy of” my emotions for so long that I tend to suppress them when conversing with others. Ironically, adhering to logic in conversations pisses people off, too.
Hi Lizzie, No your comment wasn’t vague at all. PDoc’s can be as stigmatizing and can lack knowledge about BP almost as much as primary care Docs can. I know this from some poor treatment of my own illness in the past – it took me about 14 years to find a good PDoc – I had him for the next 10 years, then he retired. I have a decent PDoc now, and am also in Maine (mid-coast.) There are a couple of good ones up here, but I’m guessing u r in So. Maine or rural. If you happen to be in the mid-coast I can give you two names of good PDocs in Rockland/Rockport area, but there’s quite a wait list (about 3months is average.)
I’ve seen studies that show BP patients are less likely to receive proper treatment for heart disease & diabetes than non-bipolars. We literally become our illness with many primary Docs, so your point is quite valid. I’m an RN, so I’ve seen the casual way psych patients are treated for presenting medical problems – many Docs think ppl. are blowing their medical symptoms of out of proportion, and don’t even order some basic diagnostic testing. So yes, it’s beyond frustrating when medical personnel are oblivious and discount valid symptomology. Then they wonder why our anxiety is increasing.
While u r accused of being “at the mercy of” your emotions, many in the medical community remain woefully ignorant of bipolar d/o. Thus, we are at the mercy of their stubbornly persistent callousness.
Even though I didn’t get sick until I was 21, I grew up constantly being told I was over-reacting, even when that wasn’t the case. Throw in bipolar disorder, and it’s been hard to learn that my feelings are valid, no matter what my mood may be. Sometimes I do over-react, but that doesn’t mean my feelings and opinions are any less valuable than anyone else’s.
Hi Randi. I have an interesting history, as well as a recent event about “overreacting.” I’ve been told all my life, too, that I was “being dramatic,” and ” over reacting.” I grew up in Texas and the Midwest of the United States. There, people tended to use voice inflection, very descriptive, and even do mild swearing then they were very upset. I moved to the West Coast in 1963, and to Oregon in 1976. I find the people in Oregon to be “too calm,” and some will treat you like dirt while smiling “politely.” This has particularly happened to me in the work environment in offices. I ride public transit One day I overheard two women in conversation. One said she’d just moved here from Missouri (I think it was — somewhere in the central Midwest). I asked her if people where she came from were still very expressive, using voice inflection. She said Yes. I asked her if, since she came here to Oregon, she was told, “WILL YOU CALM DOWN?!!” She said, “Oh, ALL the time!” I get very, very tired of being told to “calm down” when I automatically use an expressive voice, instead of a monotone. I guess not every person in this area uses a monotone, but a lot of them do, and particularly, too in business or public meetings. Oh, as to swearing, one summer, my apartment complex had been undergoing extensive rebuilding of its exterior walls. The noise of sawing and sanding and high pressure washing was horrendous, exp. since we needed to open our windows to cool off our living spaces. After 2-3 months of this, I went into the manager’s office and said, “When do you expect this work to be finished?” She said, “I don’t know.” I said, “It’s your G—d—- business to know!!!” She said if I was going to “talk like that,” she would ask me to leave the office. Randi, and all, do you think she was jusfied in getting her pretty back up at me like that? And was I okay angrily saying G—d— to her?” No I didn’t scream or yell, just let my language tell her what I thought of her not doing her job.
Hi Synergy,
Without knowing you personally and being there to see the incident I don’t feel I can say whether or not you were justified inwhat you said ans how you said it. In my own life, I try to adhere to an old saying: “You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.” I’ve learned that most people respond better when you are polite to them and avoid verbal or body language that may be construed as aggressive or rude. If someone feels backed into a corner they may not feel inclined to be overly helpful. I understand that you were frustrated. Perhaps next time you are in a similar situation you could try explaining why you are frustrated instead. I find it helpful before complaining about a situation to write it out first. It helps me calm down, and see the situation from more than just my perspective.
Hi Randi, thanks so much for your reply to my post. You wrote: ” I find it helpful before complaining about a situation to write it out first. It helps me calm down, and see the situation from more than just my perspective.” That”s a really good idea. I hope I have the wherewithall to do that next time. I just subscribed to Preet Kalsi’s YouTube site. She has “5 Ways to Deal with Toxic People.” I plan to watch it again, but I did write down all her tactics. One is, “Call a friend before and after seeing the toxic person.” I think this is a WONDERFUL idea. My current problem with that, though, is this: I only have three friends I trust enough who would be close enough to me, to all. One is struggling with cancer, so I don’t want to bother her. I give her lots of support, but think my own problems are so small compared to hers. One is my boyfriend; the other is a long time woman friend. Then, there’s my therapist, too. I need more close friends. IYesterday I asked my b/f if I was being negative way too much lately. His m ild and kind response is maybe negative political stuff. I loved it that he was honest with me. He always is. So yesterday I suggested that we put as 5-minute each limit our negative political discussions, as we are both on the same political wavelink about the horrible state of the various governments and CEOs and can get carried away. I also have been venting to him way too much, although he says it’s okay. It’s NOT okay to lay all his on him. I could become a toxic person to HIM if keep this up. One died years ago (old age/heart). Two others didn’t work out. I’ve written about one who I disconnected with after she yelled ugly things at me. The other one, who I was hoping to be friends with but didn’t know well, did the same to a mutual friend, who had introduced us. So now I have a lot of friends to go to concerts, movies and theatre events with, non of them are close. I probably don’t want to get close to any of them — I don’t see them often enough, for one thing. And I really don’t feel “drawn” to them. Not sure how to make new friends — one that will turn into a really close friend. Let me do say, however, that I’ve started going to two senior centers. At one, I do line dancing, and all the women in thei group are really friendly, welcoming, and friends with each other. The other senior center, I do a handwork group and a writers group. They are all really friendly and welcoming, too. If you have any quick-term solutions to call someone before and after I meet a toxic person (mostly my landlord and my sister), please do share your ideas!
What I find more distressing than being discounted is being told that this is not a “real disease.” People know better than to discount me because I have several advanced degrees and have had a successful career, all long before we knew I was bipolar (and I also have PTSD and GAD). Based on what I’ve seen other people go through I think I am very fortunate that all this didn’t really become a major issue until I hit menopause.
At the same time, yes – it’s obnoxious to be automatically discounted because of your status. I see people every day who have much more distorted and ill-informed judgment than we have, and they’re just accepted at face value because they’ve never sought treatment. In a sense we are penalized for being intelligent enough to DO something about our situations.
Kay, you wrote: ” In a sense we are penalized for being intelligent enough to DO something about our situations.” You said it all!!! I feel the same way! Although I was never able to hold down a job, I have earned a master’s degree, dress well, am clean, and take meds and do therapy. I’ve been mistaken for a nurse or a social worker at the mental health clinic. I have a cousin who, her father (my first cousin) says, “Says she’s bipolar.” In fact, I wrote two letters to the entire side of my extended family that has mental illness for several generations. I told them about my bipolar, and said it would be wise of them to be aware of the genetic component so that if any of them, or their children show symptoms, maybe they would not have to go through over 50 years of troubles like I did. Not a single one of my relatives responded to either of my letters. On the other hand, when my other first cousin had cancer, the entire family wrote to him and to each other that they were praying for him, and discussed his situation for years while he was fighting his cancer.
Yes, I have had bipolar for about 35 years and once people know I have bipolar they tend to judge everything I say as either a lie or delusional, pretty much. It’s the same for people with schizophrenia. I don’t think people with anxiety or depression or PTSD, etc, cop this type of prejudice. From my reading it is clear that issues associated with mental illnesses (particularly bipolar and schizophrenia) are worse than the actual illnesses, but we’re strong and we cope.
Dear Natasha, you wrote in part: ” Yes, my thoughts can be affected by not only my bipolar mood but also by the experiences I’ve had because of the bipolar. For example, if I’m depressed, my opinions will often be bleak and self-deprecating because I’m feeling negative and self-hating thanks to my bipolar depression. But just because my words have been fundamentally shaped by my bipolar disorder, does that mean they should be discounted? Does this mean they have no validity?” Gosh, this sounds exactly how I perceived myself when I first was diagnosed with bipolar! I was shocked! Me, I mental case? What did this mean about everything, every statement, every judgment, every opinion I had had my whole life? Was it all a fiction????!!! I finally told these worries and fears to my therapist at the time. She said, “Bipolar disorder does not mean nothing you say or have said has validity. What happens is that your judgment may be ‘off” when you are depressive. You may think and say the everything is wrong, nothing works or works out. When you are manic or hypomanic, you may believe that something you do or want to do may change the world.” When you are not depressive or manic your judgment is excellent.” Wow, what a relief. As for other people discounting what I say, that is rare. But I had a terrible, terrible experience with the family of my late husband who completely discounted me and trashed me because at the time I was open about having bipolar. They claimed I could not take care of him while he was dying because I was bipolar. They even convinced the hospice worker, his nurses, an elder abuse counselor whom I personally had called in to help both of us from abuse from his family, and my own therapist at the same medical facility (which was Kaiser) to turn against me. I called the police one night at 11:00 at night because his son was pounding on my door with all his might over and over for 15 minutes. I was afraid he would decide to break down my door. But the son called the police on ME. The police went to see them FIRST, even though I’d called first. The police officer believe them, not me. I was shocked by all this. The family had been friends with me before all that. They had apparently decided I was a money grubber, after his inheritance, which was only$20,00 and he had parceled it out in equal amounts to all of us, including me, who had been caring for him and his health problems for over two years. Then they stole my inheritance. I have never in my life met such horrible people, and this was one of the worst experience of my life.