Have you ever attempted suicide because of a mental illness? Have you ever gone to the emergency room (ER) because of a suicide attempt related to a mental illness? If you have, then you probably know, the mentally ill who attempt suicide are second-class patients in the ER. Doctors seem to, distinctly, not like people who attempt suicide. The same goes with people who self-harm. These people are second-class patients as well. But why are the mentally ill who attempt suicide second-class patients?
Doctors Don’t Like the Mentally Ill Who Attempt Suicide
A doctor’s job is, at its core, to save lives. Doctors (particularly in the ER) go out of their way and do everything possible to save the lives that are being delivered to them. The mentally ill who attempt suicide work against this mandate. It sort of makes sense that someone who would take a life is frowned upon by those dedicated to saving them.
The same logic goes to why doctors don’t like people who self-harm. Doctors are busy patching innocent victims of accidents up all day and people who self-harm create these injuries on purpose – making more work for the (often) overworked doctors and taking time away from those patients who are in the ER through no fault of their own.
You see this second-class citizenry of those who attempt suicide by seeing how long they have to wait to see someone (often an acutely suicidal person with a mental illness is expected to wait for hours, probably alone), the lack of care they receive when they do see someone and their lack of even receiving a hospital bed, instead, being released as acutely suicidal as they were before they took the pills in the first place.
Suicide Attempts and Self-Harm Are the Symptoms of Mental Illness
The problem with this logic is that it fails to recognize suicide attempts and self-harm as what they are: symptoms of a greater, legitimate, medical illness. People don’t wake up one morning and just decide to take a blade to their wrists as if it were changing coffee chains on their way to work. No, people are driven to these acts by suffering and, usually, it’s suffering at the hands of mental illness.
In other words, suicide is a symptom of mental illness and not merely an annoying thing that people do. And doctors are completely missing out on this reality.
I get why it’s easy to show compassion to a burn victim who got his or her wounds by running into a burning building to save a child. Righty. No problem understanding why people like that person. And I get why it’s easy to show compassion for a person who suffers a heart attack out of the blue through no fault of his or her own – totally understandable.
But what I don’t get is why doctors – who are supposedly well trained in aspects of illness, pain and suffering – don’t see suicide attempts by the mentally ill for what they are – symptoms of an illness, an illness contracted by the person through no fault of his or her own, an illness that most people would do absolutely anything to get rid of, an illness that’s just as real (and possibly fatal) as the one that may have caused a heart attack.
Instead, the mentally ill who attempt suicide are treated like an inconvenience, something that interrupts the doctors’ “real” work. (And, by the way, this may be how loved ones treat a person who has attempted suicide, too. This really adds insult to injury.)
I suspect this feeling that people with mental illnesses who attempt suicide are second-class patients has to do with a lack of education on the part of the doctors. While doctors do partake in psychiatric rounds during their training, it seems like most of them forget whatever it was they learned during those few months. Or, perhaps, they just never did have compassion for any of those they treated in the hospital; it’s hard to say.
But what I will say is this: the mentally ill who attempt suicide deserve the same quality of care as anyone else. If a person almost dies because of a heart attack they are given proper medical attention, including admission to the hospital, as they should. And people who attempt suicide deserve no less. We do not deserve stigma-laden judgement and prejudice. We are not second-class patients just because we have illnesses that can’t be measured on a blood test. We are not second-class patients because our illnesses have manifested in a suicide attempt. We are just patients, like other patients. And we deserve compassion, respect and high-quality healthcare. We are just as innocent as anyone else who ends up in the ER.
Thank you on your words concerning how the medical facilities treat mentally ill people who succumbed to weakness of thought. I seriously wonder what goes through a medical professional’s mind to judge people so harshly.
Second class citizens?
I really hope this is only for a specific facility or area.
Update to my comment. I have bi-polar 1 (I wish I didn’t half the time – sorry BP joke)
Any how – I have had a valid an lethal suicide plan with method available to me in a storage facility but every time I feel on using it I give myself 24 hours.
Many times I spent splintering my fingernails metaphorically on the edge of the cliff near the abyss …
… and no one on Earth knew.
This is the truest article I have read on suicide. When it is the suicidal people who need the MOST compassion and love. I do not understand how a nurse or doctor could not have any sort of understanding of that. Why do they blame the victim? Eff’m All!
I was in ICU or 4 days, intubated, when I woke, they made me get dressed and leave. I had no coat, no ride, no money, no compassion; I was in my slippers and did not have my glasses. It was a rainy winter day, and I was 10 miles from home still very sedated. The nurse was as cold as a fish. THEY SENT ME OUT ON THE STREET! WHAT THE HELL!!!
They saved me but I didn’t want to be saved; i am still pissed that they saved me because I need help and no one is out there to help the way I need. The spent 100 thousand to save my sorry ass but won’t help me try to live a better life.
I hate doctors and nurses, and I hate that I have to pay for insurance that I will not be able to use.
I can’t wait to be out of this world. someone like me with this much hate in my heart should not be allowed to live.
Researchers report biomarkers and apps that predict risk of suicide
People being treated for bipolar disorder and other psychiatric illnesses are at greater risk of attempting suicide, but physicians may now have tools to predict which of those individuals will attempt it and intervene early to prevent such tragedies from occurring.
In the article “Understanding and predicting suicidality using a combined genomic and clinical risk assessment approach,” researchers at Indiana University School of Medicine reported in the journal Molecular Psychiatry that they have developed blood tests and questionnaire instruments that can predict with more than 90 percent accuracy which of those patients will begin thinking of suicide, or attempt it.
http://www.neuroscientistnews.com/clinical-updates/researchers-report-biomarkers-and-apps-predict-risk-suicide
I want to contest your focus purely on mental illness.
You write “suicide is caused by mental illness”. A couple of things.
It is true that a lot of people who commit suicide are depressed, anxious etc.
But what are these states of mental distress or mental illness caused by? The answer does not simply lie in your brain. Focusing on the mass of jelly in between your skull while ignoring many of the reasons people choose to commit suicide is not only disingenuous but harmful.
Some reasons people may choose to commit suicide:
Failure: Many people commit suicide because of failure. Sometimes, it’s as simple as failing an exam (this wouldn’t make me commit suicide, and people should think long and hard before they make this choice), but other times, it is failure which may be academic, financial, relationship-wise etc. which have been ongoing for a long time, and have a very negative impact on your life. They may also affect your self esteem and dignity.
Indignity: People commit suicide because they feel undignified in some way or the other. Shame makes people commit suicide.
To quote Thomas Szasz “We must keep in mind that people want and need not only health but also dignity, that often they can obtain health only at the cost of dignity, and that sometimes they prefer not to pay that price. It is obvious, for example, that patients participate most eagerly and most intelligently in medical situations that entail little or no humiliation on their part; thus, people seek help freely for refractive errors of their eyes or for athletic injuries. It is equally obvious that patients participate most reluctantly or not at all in those medical situations that entail a great deal of humiliation on their part; thus, people are often reluctant to seek medical help for syphilis or gonorrhea, even though these diseases can now be treated effectively and safely, and they often do not seek medical help at all for “conditions” whose treatment is humiliating to the point of legally articulated stigmatization-such as drug addiction or the so-called psychoses. There is a practical lesson here for all of us-namely, that it is not enough that we do a technically competent job of healing the patient’s body; we must do an equally competent job of safeguarding his dignity and self-esteem. In proportion as we fail in this latter task, we destroy the practical value of our technical competence for the sick person.”
Wanting to escape a life of suffering: There may be a plethora of reasons why people CHOOSE to commit suicide. Sure, sometimes the decision may not be a sound one, and being depressed and having an apprehension about their problems may colour people’s decision. But it is not necessary that it always is colouring their decision. Committing suicide is in some cases, something one repeatedly thinks about, weighs in various factors in his/her life, and decides to take that final step. These reasons should not be ignored.
Of course, I know that quoting Thomas Szasz may ring alarm bells in Natasha’s mind and the minds of others who might think “, Here we go, another antipsychiatry guy”, but I am not writing this from that stand point.
If you want to know, I take Lamotrigine, Mirtazapine and Escitalopram everyday, and I’m not screaming out “,Evil drugs, you’re a fool to take them!” Psychotropic drugs can be useful, especially in acute situations where they are sometimes really necessary.
Psychiatrists, psychologists etc. will only be able to help a person so much when it comes to their problems, and yes people have problems. This is true whether or not a person has a bipolar diagnosis or any other psychiatric diagnoses or no diagnosis at all. After all, even the psychiatrically labelled are human beings who face challenging times in their lives.
I also agree with the theme of your article that if some doctors are treating people who attempt suicide as second class patients, they should certainly not do that.
But I will contest your argument that suicide is solely a symptom of mental illness. It may be associated with mental distress, but the causes of that mental distress should not be ignored.
Michael, in the Washington Post article you sent the link to, the writer says: “Unfortunately, nobody is accurately tracking data or really analyzing why doctors may be depressed enough to kill themselves. … Like many doctors, at one point I felt trapped in an assembly-line clinic, forced to rush through 45 patients a day, which led to my own despair and suicidal thoughts. Then I opened my own clinic, designed by my patients. I’ve never been happier.”
A similar thing happened to me in my teaching profession. I taught public school for a less than 2 years. This was not something I could handle well. I loved teaching Kindergarten, but even with that grade level, I took all of the 10 days of sick leave, at different times — sometimes for a mental health and rest day. But I had to tell the school principal that I had some other sickness that day. School teaching was not what caused my wishes to die — I had had those thoughts since was at least 4 years old, maybe 3. But I finally decided to go “independent, ” like the doctor above did, and like my cousin did for his medical practice. Since getting COMPETENT mental health treatment, starting when I was 56 years old, I don’t have suicidal thoughts anymore.
I believe the doctors are highly educated when it comes to suicide…Why is it that amongst the many professions doctors rank very high in suicides and we really don’t know the exact number becuase their fellow doctors can cover it up real well. Anesthesiologists are number 1 becuase they have access to those gases that they use to put us under. And Medical schools are notorious for having students commit suicide.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/when-doctors-commit-suicide-its-often-hushed-up/2014/07/14/d8f6eda8-e0fb-11e3-9743-bb9b59cde7b9_story.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/23/american-doctors-are-killing-themselves-and-no-one-is-talking-about-it.html
This is such a sad article! I just recently posted about this issue on my site and then in searching around found this. The hospitals and doctors who behave like this should be ashamed.
And you know, it isn’t just about suicide and self harm. Even just telling a nurse at a routine check up what meds you are on and what they are for can earn you some coldness, a little more distance….maybe worse.
It pisses me off
Check this out if you want to see just how much it pisses me off ;)
https://bipolarfirst.wordpress.com/2015/07/13/bipolar-shame-suicide-stigma/
Thanks Natasha!
Thanks for speaking up about this and putting it out there. It must be said.
Bipolarfirst girl.
You state….”And you know, it isn’t just about suicide and self harm. Even just telling a nurse at a routine check up what meds you are on and what they are for can earn you some coldness, a little more distance….maybe worse.
It pisses me off:
You are spot on. I went to see a gastro doctor becuase of an impending colonoscopy and the nurse asked me what Meds I was on and since I was going to be put under I told her all of them and when I said one of them was lamictal her attitude changed and asked me what am I taking it for. I said I rather not say, knowing of what you speak of. The doctor I knew from a few years back and we had a great chat and he asked me how I was doing becuase I looked quite bad and I told him to keep it confidential but I have complex PTSD and a bad case of BP malady. He listened and told me he wouldnt put it in my records becuase I told him I didnt want it in ther becuase it wasn’t germane to what I was coming in for. I got home a few hours later and received an email that the gastro offices were very much computerized. Once can schedule appointments on the site, ask for med refill, etc. All I had to do wad get a username and password.. Looked very good and I did not see the terms and conditions and found out it was a 3rd party piece of software and my information could be shared. HIPPA ACT out the window. I looked at my new record and 3 things were listed. High liver enzymes, Family history of cancer of colon and I am bipolar. What does being Bipolar have to do with a colonoscopy.. I immediately called the office and demanded to speak to the doctor who apparently went back on his word and left him a message saying that the bipolar comment should be taken off immediately. I asked to have my account shut down and talked to the I.T guy responsible for keeping the 3rd party software running so that he can shut it down .. Took a while but I got a message saying Bipolar was stricken from the record and my account as per my request was deleted. I was so mad. I have come across a few doctors whose stigma towards people with our maladies treat us as if we are idiots or lepers or children… Apparently the word EMPATHY has been stricken from the doctors reading material. This whole country has an empathy deficit if you ask me.
Dear Michael and Bipolarfirst girl, That’s a very bad breach of HIPPA regulations. I do know this, though — doctors are demanded and required to work speed-up, zillions of cases, too many 15-20 minute appointments every, single day — such abusive working conditions! That’s really the MAIN PROBLEM — their working conditions! What can the public and insurance companies do to treat the doctors better???? My cousin has gone into private practice to get out of this rat race. So did one of my psychotherapists! Of course, now, low income people cannot afford to see them! For doctors, and probably other medical professionals such as nurses, there are bound to be a LOT of mistakes in a person’s dx and’/or records and files. My b/f, who goes to Veterans medical care, was misdiagnosed for terrible intermittent pain for at least 2 y ears — sometimes he says 4-years…. He saw several Veterans care doctors, including two specialists, but nobody knew whaht to do to stop the pain, and clear up the problem. But finally, just 2 weeks, ago, Veterans sent him to a surgeon outside of the Veterans hospital, so he cold schedule an appointment for a different, but related, condition. He agreed to the surgery, he said, saying okay if it fixes the pain problem (which was, as I said, misdiagnosed.) The new doctor said, One, that he didn’t need that particular surgery. ; and Two, he gave a diagnosis that makes sense!! We were both just thrilled by this new diagnosis! So far it isn’t life-threatening, but IS getting worse, and could develop into a life threatening condition. So now he’s attempting to get the Veterans to get h him into surgery asap. He is calling the Patient Advocate at Veterans. He was going to tell the Advocate that he wants surgery “in a timely manner.” Then, as a parenthesis, he told me “Well, ‘timely manner’ means different things to different people.” I said, yeah, you need to say “no later than August 31!” We’ll see what happens next. I’m totally worried about him! We are both 73 y/o and nobody knows how long either of us weill last!!! He now says he is a “semi-invalid” — he can’t do hardly anything outside his apartment because he’s afraid of exacerbating his newly-diagnosed condition. We have had to cancel THREE day trips were were planning for this summer. He’s even missing his aqua aerobics, which he loves, and which he says is his only exercise!
Synergy
My gastro doctor does not have abusive working conditions at all. He started his practice a few decades ago and turned into a corporation with 12 other doctors of which he is the top dog. He is booked months in advance.. I do not feel sorry for him one bit.. He is good for at least 1 million a year. And he is an ahole dor doing what he did. After my procedure he is going to find out exactly how I feel . No one will take advantage of me anymore or say any disparaging remarks whatsoever and better treat me like any other patient and follow the HIPPA Act.
Hi Michael, yeah, it sounds like your doctor is one of the “lucky ones,” in that he has actually “made it” to the top of the profession. He sure needs to hear from you! A terrible SNAFU. Well, anyway, I hope that your strong efforts to remove the bipolar info from your record worked — the first time. I’ve tried to remove things from my record, and sometimes it takes more than one complaint from me to get these things expunged. So you might want to check, check and triple check, with several different doctors at the clinic and other clinics you go to, as well as some of the computer managers, insurance managers at the clinic, or some such. Each one will have a “different screen,” There are links all over the place.
I often think that in the profession many doctors, nurses and others are scared of us or treat us with lack of respect and empathy becuase in many ways we may remind them of themselves or their family member’s issues.
I was in a support group for people who suffer from the malady of being Bipolar and the first time I was there I was amazed that in my group of 12 there were 3 nurses who were not well at all but still worked. They came from long distances from where they worked. I knew that doctors would definitely not attend for fear of being caught, possibly losing a license, etc.Now, Immediately think that when A nurse and I interact that she may have a mental issue and I am scared. Or the doctor that I see had serious issues. None of are immune, especially in the profession of medicine. Loos at all the suicides in that profession.
Are there no psych doctors or psychologists that have serious mental issues. How many times do we read about them being arrested for all types of reasons including forced sex on patients, etc.. ARe there no people in our mental hell industry who don’t have serious mental issues? I just think that we scare so many of them becuase they look at us and they know that we are them and they are holding on by a thread in many cases.. In the many years I have been sick I have come across doctors who I felt were not well, were psychopaths, etc. I have been searching for a therapist who also has a bipolar malady so we could relate and I probably have but they could never admit to it out of fear, etc.
The medical staff who treat others who have tried to commit suicide or have entered an emergency room becuase of botched attempt should be evaluated themselves periodically by the administration if they are still fit to deal with these matters and if they are not should move on to another area or be dismissed. At the hospital I live near it has gotten rid of the psychiatric unit becuase it loses money and given the beds to the new heart wing which is a big profit center. My own psych doctor who is connected with another hospital told me never to admit myself to his hospital. It is a nightmare staffed with people who are burned out and or on some power trip and If I ever do which I hope i Never will have to, just be quiet, don’t do anything to make them mad and go with the program, or there will be a price to be paid. Boy did he level set me. We had a few church run institutions that were the modes for good psychiatric care and saw everyone no matter if they could pay or not and treated them with respect. I visited one of these places twice.. The second time it was a horror show run by a psychopathic doctor who was so nasty to me while we were talking about being admitted. I left within 10 minutes later to find out it was taken over by a for profit company. We have a major empathy deficit in this country and we see it everywhere including our hospitals. I pray that this will change for the better.
I’ve learned to take it as a given that post-suicide attempt, doctors and nurses will be cold, rude, and indifferent. What really hurst is the transport to the mental hospital after you’re physical issues are corrected. The ambulance drivers talking about you, in front of you, or asking you very sensitive questions about the circumstances of your failed attempt. Then the mental hospital intake people take humiliating pictures of you strapped in the gurney. This is the dehumanizing picture every doctor and nurse will see when they view your file. The nurses barely talk to you as they take your vitals before they put you in an observation room. The very people who are supposed to be caring for you in post-suicide attempt crisis treating you with distain. Barely engaging with you – asking questions, but giving no answers. Once you improve and get into groups you’re censored – don’t talk about your attempt or the “why” as it might be uncomfortable for the other patients. You’re viewed negatively and avoided. It feels like they can’t wait to get you medicated and out of their hair as quickly as possible.
Adam,
Yes spot on.
Though,I’ve ( I’m in Canada) never heard of photos taken at all…(??)
But,of course they want to dope us up esp if we become manic afterwards……
Less trouble for them…I mean,how many physically fit good looking nurses have you seen on psych wards?
Most are doing charting ( 1 h) long breaks,( donuts,tons coffee,crappy food…many smoke..even though they wash
With sanitizer I’m sensitive ( allergic,too) uck….
Many are overweight & out of shape….
What is the best way to stop violence if your not really physically strong???
Medications.
Fastest administration,via hypo needle! ( in the buttocks)
Or if your really bad ( generally,sorry,this is sexist but true least where I live..)
They ring for security kinda scary but cool b/ c nothing interesting ever happens when your on that ward………
He holds the guy down,then nurse comes & in goes in haldol ….
Sounds like pop goes the weasel!!!!
Lol!!!!
But seriously….
I believe that we’ve all carried scars from being in hospital ( bad abusive treatment)
I wish some professionals could read this blog….hear the pain,suffering left ….
Damage …
Done….Some Survived like us…I’m certain many many did not.
Sandra Cobban
I truly believe many in the health field do read this blog in anonymity.
Well,respecting your privacy I’m not entirely certain the professionals do read these posts.
For one thing,where do they have the time?
Sandra
( simply my opinion on this matter.)
I am not in the field. I am on disability for I can cycle many times a day and its very severe. but I was referred to this site by a doctor and have another acquaintance in the field who reads it. So, there must be more.. When do they have the time? They do take days off and lead lives like we do, albeit in many cases hectic.
Michael,
Yes I see your point is valid ( about Drs having time to look here over weekends &/ such.
I apologise./ I was kind of Bitchy as I was waiting for some pain meds to be delivered ( 3 h later than normal time!!)
Ironically,when you describe how your a rapid cycler,so forth ….I am,too!!
I detest it!
I’m sorry for your pain,I mean it b/ c I get it…physical too
So…Stay Well
Sandra in Bipolar Cyberland
Michael, thanks so much for posting the article about physician suicides! I sent it to my cousins . He’s a psychiatrist working half time for the Veterans Administration, and half time in his own practice. She is a lawyer and works for a medical malpractice insurance company in the capacity of counseling physicians to assist them in overcoming burnout and compassion-fatigue. I love her job, because it not only saves the company money in malpractice payouts, and theoretically lowers premiums for the doctors., but also of course helps the doctors to continue to love their jobs and their patients! A Win Win Win Wini for everyone, including my cousin!
Synergy
Many years ago I had a psych doctor who worked for a major hospital and was given a new psych program to oversee. He was also seeing his own patients. A few years later he called me to tell me he has his own practice becuase the program was discontinued becuase of funding and I visited him for my med, etc and he said he was only working 20 hours a week in his practice. What blew my mind was that he told me in his practice he would fight for people like me with insurance companies on still giving his patients disability payments and the rest of the time he worked for an insurance company telling doctors like himself that they will be stopping insurance to people like me. He was on both sides of the fence and I saw his enthusiasm for his work etc go down hill. I no longer visited him. He was not well and to the contrary he was combative with me. I sincerely hope he is not practicing at all now.
Interesting to note that the medical profession has one of the highest rates of suicide and the numbers that we see of those doctors who did commit suicide aren’t anywhere near the real truth becuase other doctors will cover it up.
When doctors commit suicide, it’s often hushed up……
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/when-doctors-commit-suicide-its-often-hushed-up/2014/07/14/d8f6eda8-e0fb-11e3-9743-bb9b59cde7b9_story.html
Very interesting read…
Ironically,I just because we have such a great relationship get my Dr his new fave treat ( now..)
Organic chocolate bars…
For no reason…you’d think I’d given him a lottery win some days….
He says oh your so sweet!
Now I can have this with my coffee on my break!!!
So,again the belief that oh he’s rich that won’t phase him….
Think again…..
These Drs are people too,
I’m not saying all are good ( b/ c they aren’t ) but mine has been a GUARDIAN ANGEL.
So, few dollars here there a year is nothing, for HELPING ME SAVE MY LIFE.
Guess we have to remember that human brain can only take so much…..
I agree
Appreciate your Dr.
You never know what tomorrow holds….
I lost my beloved psychiatrist …..to cancer & this man put himself thru Oxford with polio.
Years ago I lost him,like a second father…..I only knew my appointments kept getting cancelled…..
I was finally told he was hospitalized …..I so wanted to see him…not allowed..protocol…
Died shortly after…
Couple weeks after,his secretary knew her well ( 20 yrs seeing Dr)
Composed a essay of sorts,of bio,education,marriage,kids hobbies …very interesting…many things I never knew…
Born in South Africa…how the natives taught him to swim( he was born with polio but IT NEVER STOPPED HIM
EVER once…
but as he aged you could see pain in him,he got around in an electric wheelchair…
& drove ( yes!) a van geared special for his disability …..
The song MY HERO by the FOO FIGHTERS …..:-)
Ironically,after all these years,our family tree I’ve roots IN SOUTH AFRICA.
So this wasn’t a suicide,but a natural death.
I miss him like my own dad ….
But he,like my own dad gave me the gift of more STRENGTH & PERSISTENCE.
No matter THE ODDS
My Dr presently showed me he truly cares what happens to me,is empathetic & great listener & even funny…
Good looking too!!!
( sigh)
I’m FOURTUNATE I’ve him…..
Yes,Drs have access to all the hypos & drugs…..
Heard highest rate of death is anesthestheologists………sad.
Thanks for the link.
Ciao,
Sandra
We are invisble to the MEDICAL world and not taken seriously because we are MENTALLY ILL and mental illness is STILL not recognized as a medical issue.
It is a MENTAL issue, to the vast medical world.
I think that until Psych and Mental changes it’s names to something Medical… we will always be “in the dark shadows” and “in the closet”.
What we do not seem to get is: It is MENTAL illness.
If we complain… it’s mental.
If we bring something… it’s psychosomatic.
If we present with something… it’s not real, it’s psychosomatic.
If we attempt suicide or self-harm… it’s just attention whoring.
We are MENTAL.
We are not human nor worthy.
I love this comment! Perfect. Eloquent. Thank you!
It is so true. I think you would really like these posts below. The first one is about how much I hate the term “mental illness” and the second one is about how nobody takes our disorder seriously. They are for us.
https://bipolarfirst.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/our-illness-is-not-mental/
https://bipolarfirst.wordpress.com/2015/06/25/we-dont-get-to-be-in-the-big-kids-club/
A few years ago, I had a suicide attempt. I walked in and told them I needed help. When the ER doctor came into my room, I thought I was going to be safe; however, she walked right outside my door and said I was a waste of her time. Now, she could have been talking about something else, but in my condition I knew she had to be talking about me. So when they left my room, I got dressed and walked out. I was devastated. I went home. They later sent the police to my house to bring me back, but I have never forgotten that experience.
I’ll never forget my experience. After taking 100 Tyenol capsules and drinking a quart of Southern Comfort, I was in the ER vomiting uncontrollably, in so much pain and just so weak. Not sure if it was a nurse or doctor, but she came in and told me I was going to die a slow and painful death. I was too weak to care in that moment, but it’s always been something that stayed with me and bothers me. How unprofessional!
I can remember the first mentally ill person I met, her face, our conversation, and two many years ago. She had made sense, her logic was sound, but this was a message from a confused individual all to contradictory. I had forgotten my own diagnosis. And lived the normal life until challenged by a cruel illness that my first child endured from birth. Then medical science could not help. Later I became aware of my own mental condition and attempted to serously confront it. Taking my own life has never been a real personal threat because I play with the consequences of Bi-polar. My mind is not always my friend and I know it. Nor do I make attempts to keep a good relationship with a conscience that is not trustworthy. I believe we are not our minds. Thinking is merely a tool to use and not abuse, or be abused by.
There is biology behind this. This can happen when somebody is in so much emotional pain they may feel the need to self harm/inflict pain on him/herself. If someone is able to inflict enough pain to get themselves to start to cry that triggers the parasympathetic nervous system to kick in and release endorphins to soothe and try and regulate the brain’s chemistry. That is the body’s last line of defense to try and regulate itself.
I don’t know much about the correlation between suicide attempts and discriminatory behavior towards the patient, but I believe it must be overwhelming.
However, as an RN who has suffered from BPI for > 25 years, and having a son in his mid 30’s who has suffered from BPI for >14 years, I have experienced extensive discrimination and condescending behavior from medical folk, and witnessed way too much.
Here’s what I see:
As soon as that MI label goes on, your rights to care of any type begin to erode as fast as any concerns for your privacy. HIPAA evaporates as your condition is discussed loudly in hallways with no regard as to who might overhear. Medical personnel become fearful of you – while some are pressing the need for more security, others are finagling their way off your case.
If you present with a rapid heart beat (tacchycardia,) and are naturally anxious about feeling like your heart is beating out of your chest, it’s more likely to be attributed to anxiety without so much as an ECG being ordered to confirm or R/O a cardiac incident. Never mind sending you home with a Holter monitor or ordering an echo; your MI diagnosis is all anyone needs to see. Don’t expect to be given anything to treat anxiety though, either. With that MI Dx, you’re probably just an addict seeking benzos.
How did you manage to get your heart rate so high? We druggies all know the answer to that one, right?
This is all standard operating procedure for MI patients. Recently, after his previous P-Doc retired, my son went to a new one who refused to order the prn benzo he occasionally takes for his GAD for > 10 years now. The new P-Doc ordered him a beta blocker, Propranolol (Inderal) instead…because…get this…”it sometimes has a side effect of reducing anxiety in some people.” To be honest, after 40+ years as an RN, I’ve seen this work successfully…ONCE!
So what if my son’s blood pressure drops to a level where he blacks out, right? So what if his heart rate drops him into cardiac Bundle Branch Block?
HE’S JUST AN MI PATIENT, RIGHT? IT’S NOT THAT HE MATTERS, RIGHT?
There is NO other sub category of human beings where off label meds are routinely ordered when actual meds to treat the situation exist. NONE.
Oh, and good luck getting anything for pain management with that MI Dx too – MI patients are all addicts and it isn’t credible that someone with MI could ever have physical pain.
Am I really supposed to believe that anger is a component of BP, rather than a very human reaction to this kind of chronic abuse? I don’t believe that all.
I think it’s even more stigma round the ER if you also suffer chronic physical pain too…they assume your
a drug seeker..ah yes labelling.
Still the most horrific words I do think I’ve posted quote after waiting yes,alone 4 hrs…
This Dr says well there’s nothing wrong with you,if your life’s so miserable go home & kill yourself!
Yes dear ones,he did say those exact words.
Had a psychiatrist say I had a crude mouth & stop wasting her time…so I cut her OFF right away….
Recently,read a review of her: all negative!!!
Yes,as in the bible no I don’t even read it they no not what they do…..or something…
I’ve not been able to forgive these Drs because …after there comments,I attempted to walk in front of a car but something ( ?) pulled me back…
Maybe cause I didn’t want to give them the satisfaction that they won…(??)
Or that I still have some family sort of) my sweet cat needs me,& my wonderful wonderful GP.
Who I made an appt with,spilled out the story,even he was absolutely horrified I was treated so terribly.
I want,now I can’t speak for others,just to be treated in the ER as any other sick person that comes in….
Not have the cops show up (??) BS story for paramedics protection?
No,you peeps read too many One Flew Over The Cukoos Nests,HELTER Skelter,novels…
Get educated,that’s a big issue with these people in Emerg …here it’s …oh ..yuck.
They have like a holding jail cell ( under observation) I can’t even go there but it’s nitemare only segregated by doors a guard w a gun.
Till you get to the ward,slowly depends which Dr you get …
Actually,I’ve been out of the place ( psych was in Nuerology,way way nice )
Psych-2 yrs….plan stay out!!
Thing I took away from all of it is,
I’m still going to have triggers & there’s no cure or pill that will FIX
Plus if you get on a cocktail majority works,don’t mess w it…that’s when,well for me trouble occurs.
I don’t feel great today though as I didn’t sleep well 2 nites…
Adjusting to med tweak as Dr found med had effect on people’s hearts at that dose so it had to be lowered
Body just has to adjust,plus my computer wasn’t working …took all afternoon to fix it,stressful!
Finally,my family out of town,which stresses me simply cos of emergencies ..I’m weird like that obsessive.
Hopefully I stop trying suicide,it’s been fairly long time since serious ( when me & the stomach pump were BFFS)
Too many years…
I’d black out,I really have no memory ,probably best.
I’m not going to say friends my life is great,it’s NOT but IVE MADE PROGRESS THAT OTHERS CAN SEE AS WELL….SO….FUCK THOSE RUDE DRS Your A PERSON FIRST then BIPOLAR.
FIGHT ……IVE HAD TO sometimes….many…thinking it’s too fucking hard…..IT IS
BUT IT WASNT YOUR CHOICE BUT YOUR RESPONSIBLE HOW YOU DEAL WITH IT.
Sandra in Bipolar Cyberland,hugs to all.
I’ve had a few of these experiences. Recently, due to my failure to read the milligram strength of a med (that had been doubled so I could just take it once a day) I accidentally overdosed on my Tegretol. I was on the beach getting ready for a fun and I began losing my bearings and staggering. I was hauled off to the hospital and physically abused and berated for trying to take my life, when it had been an accident. When I explained, I was not believed and yelled at further as she pushed the nasogastric tube down my nose and throat. And I was involuntarily hospitalized and endured all that went through that.
Another time, I tried a new antiseizure drug, Gabitril, to control my mania. It put me in a blackout at the dose I took. I was involuntarily hospitalized but by then, my husband knew the phone calls he had to make and terms he had to use (threatening lawsuit to the night administrator and other hoops to jump through) and I was released ten hours later. Sure the psych on staff interviwed me after they pumped my stomach but he also decided I was trying to off myself.
The worst of the worst was when I woke up in the USC Medical Center in handcuffs in LA. I had been doing cocaine and using alcohol and benzo’s to hasten the agonizing comedown. I passed out. The paramedics were called. They would not take me out of the cuffs and screamed at me incessantly. In 24 hours I was released and no charges were filed. I guess they couldn’t prove anything felonious…all there was was illegal carelessness.
In all three cases, I have to wonder, was the abuse racially motivated? I am a Stanford Grad, appear to be in good health, privileged, having everything to live for. But bipolar disorder and addiction are diseases, not always choices. What’s most frustrating for me is that I’m doing all I’m supposed to do for my bipolar illness and am still depressed. I don’t know what to do. I’m working on an inpatient hospitalization plan as we speak. I don’t want to kill myself. I have never tried. But if it comes down to that, I want an action plan, and a choice of shrinks. I’m a strong personality and some shrinks get abusive and dominant, eager to prove alpha male status. Whoops! am I being sexist?
Hi there,
Well,we know we didn’t choose the disease it chose us.
I’m very intelligent person as well,it doesn’t discriminate.
At least you went thru uni,I got accepted but had a nervous breakdown…( sigh)
Still,haunts me at age 54!
No,I don’t think your wanting some control in your treatment plan,or therapist
( or am I being sexist?) who cares?
Think of it like a dress,it has to fit JUST RIGHT FOR YOU.
Don’t ask others,doesn’t matter,it’s your life.
Also,some BP people were/ are addicts too,I think it’s self medicating…
I know I CANNOT drink. Not cause I’ve problems with it ( don’t even like it)
makes me violent…) Same with cold meds allergy meds…
Finally,you’ve the smarts on your side too,stay educated as much as you can re BP
Hope that helped…
Cheers,Sandra
i have had some very humiliating experiences in the ER; i was in the ER recently for something not related to MI, but because my MI is in my chart, i was treated like a leper. telling what happened and complaining is ok, but what actions can be taken to help eliminate this bad behavior that is in much of the medical community?
“…what I don’t get is why doctors – who are supposedly well trained in aspects of illness, pain and suffering – don’t see suicide attempts by the mentally ill for what they are…”
I get it. I’ve spoken to a number of doctors and others associated with the medical profession, and I get it. I don’t agree with them, but I get it. What these disparaging people generally think is that the suicide attempts are not genuine, that they are “calls for help” and not real attempts to kill. They resent having to spend time on people who they feel ‘brought it on themselves’ causing doctors to neglect others who are also at risk of dying, but (according to Triage rules) not at the same level of risk in ER as the attempted suicide. Many of them feel these mental illness emergency patients should, and could, have chosen better ways to ‘cry for help’, or to “pull themselves together” and gone to see a doctor, “even to have checked into ER voluntarily” rather than wait to be taken by an ambulance.
They *might* be right in some causes but what this shows is how some medical professionals fail to appreciate, to understand, the crisis that affects a mentally ill person, *fail to understand how that ill person sees their own situation.*
The reverse may also be true, that the mentally ill person fails to understand how the ER doctors and nurses perceive the situation, too. It is like the difference between someone who is diagnosed as autistic and someone who does not qualify as autistic – a mentally ill person cannot always understand people who are not mentally ill, and vice versa. Why, we’ve all seen that, sometimes even in the psychiatrists surgery! How many of us have been with a psychiatrist and come away frustrated because “s/he doesn’t understand me”? I know I’ve been there, with that psychiatrist!
In fact, it could be very much more like the autistic example, because, as we all know, mental illness can cause us to interpret the World around us differently when we are ill to how we see it when we are ok (especially if we are psychotic). It is as if mental illness can cause is to become autistic, if only for a while.
So, it’s not just about ignorance of mental illness, it’s also a failure to find a common understanding of where their individual World’s overlap.
What to do about it? A good starting point would be for doctors and nurses to have much more training in mental health!
What they don’t realize is that even “calls for help” can end up dead or with serious lasting injuries or effects if not promptly treated.
A similar issue is experienced by cutters who accidentally strike a major vein or an artery. Some doctors will not give these patients anesthesia “just to teach them a lesson”.
When I was admitted for mania, waiting in psychiatric emergency for a bed, my mum brought up a care package for me. The nurses kept the bag behind the glass for checking.. I gave them an hour before asking for it, since anybody who approaches the counter is treated as a nuisance. When the nurse finally gave it to me I asked him if he was going to check it. He said “I don’t care if you cut yoursself”. It’s like he was back in the 1950’s. Some hospitals do have the from the past. Nbeing treated with stigma whilrwhile you are trying to get better is so totally pointless.
You seem to be making a very broad generalisation about doctors. I didn’t feel treated as a second-class patient after I attempted suicide. In fact I would later claim to be suicidal when I probably wasn’t because experience had shown me that I would be more likely to be readmitted and cared for if I were believed to be suicidal.
On what data do you base your conclusion that this is a general tendency? There are a huge number of doctors in the world and each of us has direct experience of only a few.
What you are saying would be just as valuable, perhaps even more valuable, if you made it more specific, e.g. “After I attempted suicide I felt that I was treated like a second class citizen by the doctors I saw, and others have shared similar experiences with me. If a doctor views us as second class citizens after a suicide attempt it may be for this reason.”
Those of us who have a mental illness don’t like it when people generalise about us. I’m sure that doctors don’t like to be generalised about either.
It’s sadly ironic: those in the medical profession generally chose that career path because they wanted to help people.
With many professions, over time people can become desensitised to their job and it becomes a chore instead of a passion. I wonder if that is the case with the medical industry too – especially with increasing pressure to attend to higher workloads with less resources meaning that people are increasingly triage’d without any focus on systemic causes.
Or perhaps there’s still far too much ignorance and understanding …
David, interesting observation! Guess what, though…not only are you right on about doctors’ becoming desensitized, or “burned out,” as I would call it. My cousin works for a medical insurance company that represents doctors in malpractice suits. Her job is to provide training/counseling to doctors, to help them handle their stress and situations! I’m so glad she’s doing that…very proud to have her as my cousin, too! Of course, it greatly benefits the insurance company, as well as their physician clients, to help doctors lee[ their stress levels way down as a result of this training. My cousin says that when a doctor becomes overstressed, desensitized, or what have you, the doc’s performance on the job becomes less efficient, if you will — careless. They tend to make more mistakes — and a doctor who makes mistakes hurts many people!
I found that those of us who didn’t use drugs in the course of our struggles are also afforded second class status. Witness, for example, the decline in numbers of hospital beds for people with mental illness. The number for people who abuse drugs is on the rise, but the number for the rest of us who suffered the illness without the numbing of drugs is on the decline.
My experiences from the 1985 and 2010 were just the opposite. I was unconscious for a few hours the first time, and in a coma the second–which led to a long hospitalization.
I was treated with nothing but kindness, empathy and genuine concern for my well-being :physical and mental.
I was insured both times, so perhaps that was a factor? I am also a “professional educator.” Again, did this make a difference?
Finally, I was correctly diagnosed as Bipolar 11–like many, depression and hopelessness led to my attempts. Correct medication, and great therapy through an HMO, and of course my own work/determination, have made all the difference. While my external circumstances have worsened, at best, “Suicide is no longer an option for me.”
It took an adult lifetime to heal to this degree and, of course, there is no magical wand to be waved. But I now have the strength to help myself through depression/anxiety most often triggered by the old “abusive tapes” that run through my head.
Thank you so much for your blog, Natasha!
There are good medical staff out there, but the trouble is that they are overworked as a lot. And we have a reputation for being “difficult”.
Actually anybody who has mental illness , particularly if they have “behavioral problems,” is seen as a second-class patient. One doctor discontinued me as a patient, because I complained about the rudeness of one of his nurses! Mostly I have had very good care from doctors, but have had some very, very discriminatory experiences, too.