As many people know the Dr. Oz show, did 30 minutes today on electroshock therapy. I’m going to talk a little about the Dr. Oz show’s representation of electroshock therapy and add a few additional facts.
First off, the Dr. Oz show is a source of entertainment, like anything else on TV, so he added drama that wasn’t particularly necessary. That is the way of the show, and TV, however. Specifically, the show started off with scenes of electroshock therapy being given pre-1950 which is when you see people having convulsions in the bad old days before people were anesthetized during treatments. This is not the best way to start a show that is supposed to educate about current treatment, but he does balance this later on.
The Good About the Dr. Oz Show
I was impressed really. They did do a lot of things right and they did share a lot of facts about electroshock therapy, now known as electroconvulsive therapy (ECT). What the Dr. Oz show did right:
- Represented the modern procedure accurately and even showed the procedure being performed
- Mentioned repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation (rTMS) as an alternative therapy (rTMS uses magnetic waves rather than electricity)
- Stated that almost all insurance companies cover ECT (to the best of my knowledge this is true)
- Spoke that it should be used judiciously
- Placed it in a reasonable historical context
- Tried to reduce stigma and fear and increase awareness around the procedure
- Mentioned memory loss (twice) as a side effect
The Bad about the Dr. Oz Show on Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT)
As with all things in life, nothing is perfect. Some things you should know that weren’t altogether accurate about the show:
- Only talked about right unilateral brief-pulse ECT – while this is considered the most modern form of ECT it is not the only type. Before getting ECT you need to know what type you are getting in order to accurately judge the risks.
- Stated that ECT “reset the chemical messengers / receptors” in the brain – the truth is we don’t know exactly how ECT works, we only know that it does. It’s likely it works in multiple ways but “resetting chemical messengers / receptors” is mostly just a simplified concept and not medically accurate or at the very least, not medically complete.
- Didn’t mention the other side effects of ECT – while memory loss is generally considered the most concerning, other side effects are also possible.
Altogether, I thought it was a good show, and if a tad flamboyant, represented ECT well but there are other things you should be aware of.
Pros and Cons of Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT)
I’m a bit of an expert on ECT. Not only have I undergone it but I’m about three-quarters the way through of writing a book on it, so I’ve researched this area quite a bit. And while I can’t summarize a book on ECT for you in a few bullet points, here are some other things I think you should know about ECT.
Pros of Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT)
- ECT can be fast and effective. It can work after one treatment although you’ll likely have to have between 9-12 in your first series.
- ECT works on more than 80% of people with major depression.
- ECT is mostly used for major depression and bipolar disorder and is rarely used for schizophrenia any more.
- You don’t remember having ECT as you are under a general anesthetic.
- No treatment has ever been shown more effective for depression than ECT.
Cons of Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT)
- ECT can cause memory loss. The evidence suggests that this memory loss is specifically for the time period around the treatment but a few people have claimed greater losses of memory. – This varies with type of ECT performed.*
- Cognitive impairment – ECT typically causes cognitive impairment for the time around the treatment and it is not permanent. Six months after treatment cognitive skills have been shown to be improved, overall, after ECT. – However, this is not necessarily true for bilateral or sine wave ECT.*
- Typical side effects also include jaw and muscle pain but this is short-term.
- ECT antidepressant effects tend to be temporary so medication is needed to maintain those effects.
Overall Opinion of Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT)
ECT is ten times less likely to kill you than childbirth and about 1000 times safer than untreated major depression (in terms of death). However, this doesn’t mean it’s for everyone. The cognitive side effects are real and of a real concern.
That being said, cognitive side effects tend to build up over time. In other words, you don’t get one treatment and then find that you have no memory. You have one treatment and likely no memory side effects; then you have two treatments and find a few side effects; and then three treatments, and a few more, and so on. Some people will go through a series and not lose any memory or find any cognitive deficits. Some people will. And you don’t know which group you’re going to fall into until you try ECT. But like I said, it’s gradual and you can stop an ECT series at any time.
ECT didn’t work for me. I did nine treatments. It was painful and I hated it. That being said, it’s a perfectly appropriate treatment for some people in some cases. I really believe it is something to be considered by people who:
- Need a fast antidepressant action
- Have failed multiple treatments
This doesn’t mean I think people should run out and get it, but it does mean I think it’s worth considering.
*Sine wave ECT is an older form of ECT that is much higher risk in terms of cognitive impairment and memory loss. Brief pulse and ultra-brief pulse ECT are now (arguably) the standard and pose much less risk. Similarly, bilateral electrode placement (one electrode over each temple) is more risky than unilateral placement. It’s important to understand the differences in these risks if you’re considering treatment. For a scientific take on this, see The Cognitive Effects of Electroconvulsive Therapy in Community Settings.
My wife had catatonia and had 16 ects first course 2 years ago….she recovered but last month relapesed had second course 12 more ects ….she’s back to normal ….she was involuntary patient but it worked ….her memory wasn’t affected but personality changed a bit but can’t put my mind on how….but the procedure as her husband freaks me out and it goes for several weeks…3 times a week during sessions
Iv tried wallace fischer stimulater it really helped but sent back cuz put me in major debt but cant afford magnetic dont know if it would help and i cant get any dr. Cooperation for ect i also have adhd any suggestions only help is antianxiety meds but im 48 and have no life been on antid s alk my life tired of this
My husband has been battling PTSD, Major Depressive Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Bipolar, Insomnia, and Social Phobia for nearly his whole life (his childhood was like a horror movie). At the end of last year he suffered his 2nd major episode/flare up, and attempted suicide. He has been on 16 different medicatiobs for his depression and bipolar and anxiety that I am aware of. I am his caretaker and I stay home with him nearly 24/7 (except running errands or bringing our kids to things). His doctor has been recommending ECT for 9 months now. We are trying everything to avoid it, but my fear is that he just wants to end his suffering and so I feel like this may be his only option. He is severely treatment resistant and max doseage of all his meds has no affect on him. One of my concerns is that my husband qualifies for MENSA. He has a ridiculously high IQ and its the only thing he likes about himself. Part of this is the absolutely impecable memory he has. He remembers EVERYTHING (except for several childhood years which are completely blocked from his conscious mind). I fear that if he goes through with ECT he will lose the one thing he likes about him. It would kill him to lose that. Ive scoured everywhere and I cant find anything else that is comparable effectiveness wise. Ive seen a few treatments which are in the testing phase, but nothing available now. I feel hopeless. Does anyone have any recommendations or ideas of anything we could possibly do?
Hi all,
Note: I am running a survey on real patients’ experiences with, and perspectives on, electroconvulsive therapy (ECT). If you’ve had ECT and want your voice heard, please take the survey here. https://natashatracy.com/treatment/neurostimulation-treatment/ect/real-patient-experiences-ect-perspectives-ect/
– Natasha Tracy
I have been on anti-depressants for over 20 years for ongoing depression, I let my son from suicide 12/13,,really am struggling to live, my doc has tried various meds for my new battle in depression and has suggested last my not least that we try ect,,, I don’t see any comments if anyone has tried this for severe grief, any comments?? I am lost, broken and literally in a fog, my doc seems to think I should be better by now, I don’t see a future without my son and tomorrow just seems scary to me!!
Your doc thinks you should be “better” by now? WTF does he know about your grief and sorrow.
Running electricity through your suffering, sad brain will do nothing more than erase memories of your son, and cause temporary euphoria or a stunned state. It is closed head injury concussion, repeated. It causes cognitive dysfunction and brain damage.
Look for healing, supportive alternatives. ECT is not a “treatment” for grief or anything else for that matter. It is just a human rights violation and if you read some posts below you will see the unpredictable outcomes, many debilitating. ECT turned me into a suicidal zombie.
Hello all, I’ve too suffered major depression and didn’t care to live. In Dec 2014 I started bi-lateral ECT by successful Dr. Jamie Fernandez of Tampa FL. I currently still go monthly for ongoing maintenance, though have probably had about 40 treatments in last 16 months. My mood is stabilized and I believe the treatments have saved my life. I’m in the small percentage of pp who have suffered significant cognitive delay with short/long term memory loss and issues with current working memory. I’m currently working with a doctor for Cognitive Retraining and I am hopeful that I will be able to return to the highly successful Sr. IT Project Manager I was just back in August 2014. I’m currently on work disability and not able to work due to the cognitive issues. I’m looking for success stories in Cognitive Rehabilitation, pp for me to strive to be like in my journey to become myself again. Would appreciate any comments of how others may have suffered this Cognitive issues though came out on top again. Thx!
Hi Melissa,
I was wondering why you were given bilateral instead of unilateral treatments.
I thought unilateral ultrabrief pulse had little cognitive side effects?
I am considering ect myself after years of suffering.
The Doctor I just met with was so cavalier about ect, really made it sound like it’s not a big deal.
This concerns me. He runs the ect clinic at a major hospital, but I’m worried that he downplays the possible problems you mention from treatments.
Thanks
ECT should be banned, especially when it is administered into people who don’t need it, or want it, or have any condition that does not warrant it! How do they get away with administering this ECT into a other wise healthy woman, 42 years old, who voluntarily walked into a emergency room, in medical distress, that lead to acute mental changes. NO PRIOR HISTORY OF ANY MAJOR DEPRESSION, OR MENTAL ILLNESS OF ANY KIND!
They had no right to Lock her up for a month, administer over 10 psych drugs, and illegally administer this Electro Shock Treatment. Hopefully her story will be heard soon in the media, and hopefully she will be able to find legal recourse vert soon. This psychiatric abuse did not stop there. It continued for another 5 years, kept on wrong medications, weaning off one by one, it took 4 years, now her mind became little clearer, she investigates, gathers information, and documents, that show fraud, did not follow hospital procedures, did not have informed consent, the list of illegal things goes on… looking for other stories similar? They robbed who she was, and she has irreversible damages.
I had a total of 8 treatments (bilateral) earlier this year and my memory is shot. I have more than 5 weeks total that I can’t remember because of ECT. I had my mom come out to help while I had the treatments and I hardly remember anything except feeling miserable. What I do remember are things like my head hurting intensely bad, my body jerking and vomiting. My doctors had told me in the beginning I would probably have a little bit of confusion and memory loss but I was NOT prepared for what happened to me. Most of the side effects have worn off and I will say the ECT did help with my bipolar but I paid a high price.
Not true. I had 11 sine wave treatments and never did i lose a bit of memory. About the only side effects i did have were confusion when waking up only for an hour or so and a nasty headache that they treated fairly well. ECT was an absolute success for me and I would highly reccommend it to anyone with serious depression or TRUE Bipolar 1 disorder.
I had ect recently too to treat bipolar.It didnt work and I am wondering what you are taking in terms of medications or talking therapies to help manage your condition. I had bilateral ECT.
Kind Regards
Elaine
Hi Natasha. I am extremely interested not only about ECT but about Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation (CES). Do you have any information about it? I have been on depression and anxiety almost all my life ( I am 42) but during the last 20 years I have been on benzos, anti depressants and mood stabilizers. Since last August I started reducing the benzos and I decided not continuing on the mood stabilizer (carbamazepine). I did not feel nothing by reducing and stopping the carbamazepine but with the benzo was totally different; I only could resist 33 days off once I finished slowly reducing it. Now I am on Valium and I had to increase the antidepressant but I do not feel good at all. I have a psychiatrist, a GP, a therapist, I run, work out, I do meditate, do breathing exercises and a have a spiritual counselor. I never heard about neither ECT nor CES. Currently I do live in Victoria, BC, Canada. Do you have some info about these services here? Am I covered for my medical services? Am I eligible? Thanks a lot for your help. Cheers, F.
Carbamazapine is more of an anti epileptic anti convulsant than it is a mood stabilizer like Lithium or Depakote. Cheers
Hi Mark,
Actually, the only real mood stabilizer is lithium. Both carbamazapine and depakote are anticonvulsants used off label for bipolar.
– Natasha Tracy
Thank you Natasha for your response I will mention that to my doctor tmr when I go for my treatment and I am already doing the bilateral I do know that the treatment before my last treatment my doctor told me I didn’t have a good seizure then my treatment last week my doc said seizure was better so now I pray that tomorrows treatment will be a good seizure and get me back in my feet it’s extremely hard trying to raise a 3 year old and take care of the family when really I just want to stay in bed and sleep and am totally miserable my hopes this ones a good one
I have been taking ECT for over a year now and at first it worked and then my sister got sick with cancer and I stopped taking the treatments because I thought I was ok I lost my sister Jan of last year and by Feb of last year I could feel myself going back into a depression so now I am back at the Ect treatments and this time it does not seem to be working as well I am also raising a 3 year old which is extremely hard while going through depression luckily I have a wonderful fiancé and he is a wonderful father. I guess my biggest worry is are the Ect treatments going to start working soon so I can be the active mom that I like to be or am I dealing with the situation of they worked once so it’s not going to work this time? I know that I pray every night that the Ect will work again but as of now I am going for Ect once a week and I’ve had at least 7 so far this time around.
Hi Miranda,
I just wanted to let you know that if ECT is not working for you right now, there are options. You can go for more treatments per week (three is pretty typical), they can increase the stimulation or you can switch to bilateral ECT (if you’re doing unilateral now). I’m not a doctor and I can’t recommend any of these options for you, I just wanted to let you know that they exist.
(Of course, before you change your treatment in any way, make sure you ask about any additional side effects.)
– Natasha Tracy
my father died because of this stupid treatment and sorry if I offend people but this death has put me through misery and I don’t know how to deal with it and the fact that I am 13 years old and I have schizophrenia that is killing me from the insides and its to much to deal with
thanks for the death
‘
shock therapy kills you when they now that you get heart attacks
Hi –
I’m curious because you found ECT painful. How did this manifest itself?
Do you know of any doctors or facilities that perform ECT in NV? I live in NV & am currently driving to SLC for treatment. They are extremely effective.
Hi Debbie,
Have you tried http://www.renown.org/regional
It says they perform ECT there (in Reno NV).
– Natasha Tracy
Hi Natasha
Once again a very thorough, well researched and objective look at a very divisive topic. My wife has had close to 100 ECT treatments to subdue and manage her schizoaffective disorder and wouldn’t change a thing.
Does she like it – of course not but for her it is the only thing that can bring her out of one of her extreme psychotic episodes. I still remember the first course of treatment 12 years ago.
She had been in the mental health ward for around 12 weeks and not only wasn’t she getting better, she was in fact getting worse. She was in a complete psychotic state 99.9% of the time. She was delusional, paranoid and due to the paranoia very agitated and aggressive.
Her treating psychiatrist suggested ECT basically as a last resort because she couldn’t stay in the ward any longer and due to her condition was going to transferred to a secure residential facility.
To the best of our knowledge ECT isn’t often used to treat these symptoms and diagnosis, however when we weighed up the options there really didn’t seem to be any!
The improvement after the first treatment was incredible. We had our first “normal” conversation in nearly 3 months. She did start going backwards but following the 2nd treatment 2 days latter it was onwards and upwards!
She had an initial course of 6 treatments then a weekly “maintenance” treatment for about 10 weeks, then fortnightly for another 10 or 12 and then monthly for 3 or 4 months.
The ECT kicks the psychosis and helps with the depression/bipolar side of her illness as well.
It works so well that her hospital file is now marked up, with both her and my complete agreement, that on admission ECT is to be commenced ASAP.
Of course there are side effects with the most common being the memory issues which between us we have worked out a way of dealing with. My wife has come to the conclusion that the memories aren’t all “gone” just severely muddled up and confused. With the right attitude, a process to work through, dedication, commitment and someone to work with (me, most of the time) she has probably recovered 90 to 95% of the memories she thought she had lost.
We have written about our experiences extensively on our blog and a good starting point for interested people may be – http://www.queenslandmentalhealth.com/ect-memory-loss/ (NOTE: If links aren’t allowed I understand 1005 and please feel free to remove – I just thought it may be useful to your readers)
Keep up the great work. I love popping over here once or twice a week and reading the insightful commentary.
Thanks for all your efforts and commitment!
Best Regards and thanks again
Ian
My depression and mania started in september of 2010 and lasted until march 2012 in that time i was hospitalized 7 times . I was diagnosed with mdd bipolar with mania ptsd suisidal ideation and schitzo affected disorder. I atempted suiside 7 times. I was prescribed over 15 different meds plus another 5 for anxiety and 3 for sleep. I attended numerous hospital programsin patient and out patient therapy,group and individual .After so much work on my part and my families part to help my heal i. just suffered constantly, in 2012 two days after being released once again from another week long hospital stay. I. Looked up ECT found a hospital that would do it,and had my daughter drive me 2 hours away to try ECT. All i can say is thank GOD and the Carrier Clinic. I have been depression FREE. medication FREE no mania no anxiety no nothing but Happy and healthy since March of 2012. I have no memory loss no side affects at all. If you are suffering its worth a shot. ECT saved my life i truly believe without ECT i would be dead. Dont give up its a tough fight but it can be won. ECT worked for me along with therapy to heal mypain has given me a new lease on life. Thank you. Kim
I have had maintenance ECT for two years. Right now I have it once every three weeks. My biggest fear about ECT is that my doctor will want to discontinue it. I have NO memory loss even though I have treatments frequently and have bilateral treatments. ECT has been wonderful for me because when I become depressed (I have bipolar) I become suicidal quickly and require hospitalization. I have not been hospitalized for 26 months. I can thank ECT for that.
Hi Natasha,
This was a great Blog to read. I am a carer for my Sister who is 33. Who was diagonosed with Bipolor Depression since she was 12. The last six months she has had her worst attack to date. To the point they re diagnosed her. She has gone through many medication treatments, doctors, for depression in this time, three visits to hospital. It has been hearbreakng to watch from the outside as a family member. I had a meeting with her Doctor yesterday who has sugested this as her final option. Due to medication taking she has sufffered Kidney problems. To the point they are working at 40%. I think this could be the best option but worry about the stigma associated to ECT. For if I agree to this in Australia. My sister I think becomes an involuntry patient to do this, from the voluntry patient she is now. It goes through the tribunal process as I understand. But all the feedback on your blog has opened my mind to her feelings, what could happen and so on. Thank you everyone. Thankyou for your blog Natasha.
You say you can stop your ECT treatments at any time. This simply isn’t true for all the involuntary patients undergoing forced electroshock. Also, my medical history confirms that I only became manic (and thus diagnosed with bipolar disorder) after receiving electroshock for depression. Further, I developed epilepsy after electroshock. I am very skeptical of this drastic procedure but if people want to research the risks and benefits and decide to undergo ECT, fine. Forced electroshock, however, is a human rights violation and should be outlawed.
My father has been suffering from major depression for about 7 years. He is 73 years old and is hospitalized at least once a year. He is currently hospitalized for about 3 months and his depression is very severe that the meds are not working so his doctor has now recommended ECT.
My concern of course are the side effects especially that my father has suffered 2 minor strokes in the past 4 years. I’m concerned that the electric pulses can negatively effect his vascular system..possibly causes more hemorrhaging.
I discussed this with my father’s doctor and he states it safe in his condition. But, being that we are Canadian (I’m not a total fan of our health care system) I wonder if this is the easy way out for system, but not really for the patient.
Thanks
Concerned daughter
Hi Nancy,
In my extensive research for my book on the subject (in progress) I can tell you that one source says that, “Those who have recently had a stroke or whose condition is worsening after a stroke.” may not be good candidates for ECT.
This information was provided by, “Anesthetic Considerations for Electroconvulsive Therapy – A Team Approach” by Rose, Carol E. from the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. From what I understand, this means that people who have experienced a stroke’s suitability is under the discretion of the doctor, not that it is an absolute contraindication.
I can also tell you that ECT temporarily increases intracranial pressure, and this may be what is of concern.
But, I am not a doctor and it may be completely reasonable for a doctor to sign off on ECT for someone who has had a stroke, I cannot say.
If it were me, I would feel pretty confident in its safety given that the risk of fatal complications is no higher than for any other procedure which involves general anaesthetic, but that’s me.
All I can say is discuss it further with your doctor and try to make the best decision you can. No one knows what will happen during treatment, and that’s just an uncertainty we all have to live with.
Good luck.
– Natasha Tracy
I have had a great many treatments of ECT over the past five years. The last time I had the initial series of 12 treatments was July of 2011. Since then I have had maintenance ECT – first once a week, then every two weeks and now out to every 4 weeks. It works for me although I am still taking medication. I have minimal memory loss and it is of inconsequential things like, Oh, we have a Panera! Then when reminded I can recall the past… that’s right I have eaten there a lot.
I tried to count all the treatments I have had and I believe, over 5 years, I have had about 50 treatments. I start them when I become suicidal and continue for some time. After I stop them I have great stability for 6 to 9 months, slowly losing it again. If I had my choice, I would have ECT monthly indefinitely.
Dear Tracy,
Do you have a publisher for your book? If not, we should talk. You can e-mail me offline at the address I provided.
All best,
Ian
I had ect in Sept. of 2011; I had 12 bilateral sessions which did not work. I fell into a deeper depression after the sessions to the point of suicide. I was put back on prozac which was the very first antidepressant that I had back in 1993 while going thru menopause and subsequent hospitalization for two weeks due to suicidal thoughts. I couldn’t wait for the prozac to kick in, was in bed or on the floor crying most of the time due to the emotional pain. My doctor decided to put me on viibryd (a new antidepressant) which brought me out of feeling suicidal, but had too may side-effects, mostly diarrhea which prevented me from even leaving the house, if only for a dental appointment. I slowly went off viibryd and am now on wellbutrin which I have previously taken with no side effects. I was a functional person (worked in family law as a paralegal for 10 yrs. and which I loved – now all that is gone). I am waiting for the wellbutrin to take effect but am so tired of the emotional merrygoround. I am treatment resistant and the doctor say If I don’t improve, he will hospitalize me, either in Jacksonville FL, or Maitland, FL. I don’t want to be hospitalized and hope I will soon start feeling better. I also tried TMS. but after two sessions my physcristrist died (he was only 49 yrs. old); and am now in a legal dispute to get some of my money back which I paid up front. This is the first time I have written to anyone about my ECT experiences because I don’t really want to thing about 2011 and what a painful year it was for me and my family.
Sincerely,
Lynn S. Lawrence,
Indialantic, FL
Hi Lynn,
I’m so sorry to hear of your experience. While ECT does have a very high efficacy rate, it is true that nothing will help everyone. It didn’t work for me either (although I didn’t have bilateral).
I’m not a medical professional and I’m not in a position to advise you on your treatment but will say that some people for whom antidepressants are ineffective find antipsychotics helpful. In your position, with everything you have tried, you might consider discussing that possibility with your doctor. There is also vagus nerve stimulation which is indicated for treatment-resistant depression.
I can’t say whether those would be right for you, just throwing them out there.
You will find something that works for you, don’t give up. It took a long time for me to find my first working medication, but I did, and you can too.
Good luck.
– Natasha Tracy
Dear Amy,
“It was a living nightmare for both of us (I was her full-time caregiver).”
I too have been a very, very long-time support person, health care advocate and caregiver to my spouse and I thank you for sharing from your similar perspective. I am extremely pleased and happy for both you and your Mom that you found a treatment option that has proven to be reasonably efficacious and beneficial for her needs without serious side-effects and for sharing your thoughts.
The point I wish to make clear it is fortunate that we have the choice of various treatment options although groups such as Mind Freedom or many of the participants to blog sites such as ECT.org were to have their druthers you would have not had ECT to choose from. Then again if one reads through many Internet blogs one will find advocates calling for the banning of almost each and every medication as well as alternative and/or adjunctive therapies because of unfortunate personal bad results and narrow mindedness in thinking.
These same individuals forget or simply disregard that others are benefiting from the very same treatments.
Warmly,
Herb
vnsdepression@gmail.com
http://www.vnstherapy-herb.blogspot.com
Dr. Estrada saved my mother’s life. From the age of 70-79, she was hospitalized roughly three times a year. She was suffering from catastrophic depression that manifested as intractable stomach pain accompanied by, at various points, auditory hallucinations, a belief that she had radiation poisoning, that she was being electrocuted by the outlets in her room, by the TV… the list goes on. There were countless suicide attempts and each time she was hospitalized, she’d be released two weeks later, meds in hand, as “cured.” It was a living nightmare for both of us (I was her full-time caregiver). In nine years, she went off her meds 43 times—and that’s with me trying to control the process! I myself have a doctorate in philosophy as well as in psychology, and am a relational self-psychologist in therapeutic practice as well as a practitioner of medical hypnosis. I consider shock treatment to be for extreme cases. No one took my mother’s depression with the full gravity it deserved, despite her history, until Dr. Estrada. And it must be remembered that, in this society, there is still a predilection to classify women past their mid-60s as hypochondriacs, or in need of attention, or as simply bored. We ran into this again and again. Older women being treated for depression are frequently infantilized. It took someone of Dr. Estrada’s diagnostic talents to see that she was a perfect candidate for shock treatment—and it worked! I got my wonderful mother back, and I got my own life back, too. The issue of temporary memory loss, particularly in the elderly when memory loss may already be present, is so insignificant when measured against the horrors of what psychotic depression really means, that I am “shocked” that anyone who has struggled with depression in their own life or with the depression of a loved one would seriously consider overlooking what is truly a miraculous treatment.
Hi Amy,
I’m glad to hear your mother experienced such success. Many people would agree with you that the small amount of memory loss is a small price to pay for the quality of life they experience after treatment.
That being said, there is always risk that the memory loss will be worse than average and I understand people not wanting to take that risk. I do agree though, it is worth careful consideration.
– Natasha Tracy
Hi Natasha.
I have only recently come accross your site and blog and think it’s great.
As I live in thre UKI did not see the show you mentioned but am glad to see that ECT is being discussed in an attemp to reduce the stigma around it.
I live with long term depression and have had ECT on more than one occasion. For me it worked well, yes there were side effects, I was a little disoriantated after each session and my memories of both hospitalizations when it was used is a bit fuzzy in places, but given the state I was in before I had the ECT, I still see that as an improvement.
I’m lucky in having a good relationship with my psychiatrist, we have discussed TMS, and I have decided that if I become that ill in the future then he will try that first before ECT and I have made an advanced directive to that effect as when I am that ill I am unable to make that descision.
Hi Natasha,
Fabulous review on the TV segment and the pros and cons of ECT.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and research.
I’m an Aussie mental health advocate and love to hear both sides of the discussion.
Cheers,
Karen :)
Thanks Karen, appreciate it.
– Natasha Tracy
Natasha,
Nice review of the segment and discussion of ECT. I don’t know about it first-hand, but it was interesting how Dr. Oz said it, “reset the chemical messengers / receptors.” It looks like he’s thinking in terms of the chemical imbalance theory of mental illness. It seems to still be very pervasive.
Hi Meredith,
Thanks.
Yes, it struck me that he was thinking of the chemical imbalance theory. But it’s hard to know what to say to a general audience like he talks to. I’m a more technical kind of person but then, I don’t have to appeal to millions of viewers.
– Natasha Tracy
I had 16 shock treatments. The first two were unilateral. My doctor didn’t think they worked. He then moved to bilateral ECT and used 80 joules of electricity per treatment. This took 6 months. I came out of my depression. I had unexpected memory loss. I couldn’t remember how to cook my favorite dishes or drive to places I had been many times before. This ended in March of 2009. I used to read about a book a week, and I haven’t read a whole book since then, although I keep trying.
Strangely, I love to write and have been doing a great deal of it since undergoing ECT. After ECT I ended up on disability. I’m still on disability but am working part time. My income is less than half of what it used to be, but I am getting by. My 16 shock treatments cost about $20,000. Each treatment only took about 5 minutes. The doctors who perform ECT are probably making a killing. My insurance paid for it. I wish insurance would have paid for me to go on a 6 month tropical vacation instead. I’m sure that would have relieved my depression and I wouldn’t have to live with the side effects. I gave my consent for shock therapy, but I was so depressed at that point, that I wasn’t thinking clearly.
Hi Andrea,
Well if vacations cured depressions I’d be all for them but I can tell you I’ve had glorious vacations and they’ve done nothing for my bipolar depression.
I’m sorry you had such memory loss. I only had a little and that was troubling enough.
For the record, doctors do _not_ make a killing on ECT. The reason it costs so much is because it’s in a hospital and requires so much staff. Believe me, many doctors have gotten out of ECT because it isn’t worth the hassle.
Unfortunately, you experienced a common problem which is the fact that you were so depressed, you weren’t thinking clearly. That is common but what’s anyone to do in that case? Should the doctor not listen to you? Obviously _some_ treatment has to be done when you’re that depressed but if you can’t think clearly enough to pick it, who can? And how does someone know you’re not thinking clearly enough? It’s a very tough problem.
Just curious, when you doctor switched to bilateral ECT, did s/he explain the risks or did you care? (Feel free to answer or not.)
– Natasha Tracy
I don’t trust the psychiatrist who treated me. I was referred to him by another psychiatrist for ECT. He did explain the risks of bilateral ECT very briefly. I felt a lot of pressure to continue treatment both from him and from my family. It is very hard to stand up for yourself when you are depressed, unable to work, and being cared for by others. If you refuse a treatment, people think you don’t care about getting well. I can’t remember all of the details. My memory of the 6 months I received ECT is very hazy. I am not antipsychiatry, but I am pretty much anti ECT for me.
Hi Andrea,
I think it’s really hard to trust a doctor, especially one that is doing something so possibly risky as ECT. And like you said, you often get referred to someone – which is good as they are a specialist in ECT – but unfortunately it means you don’t have a rapport with them.
I can understand the pressure. Thankfully, I didn’t feel any and I stopped after 9 treatments because it wasn’t working. I could have switched to bilateral but I considered the risks too high and people, the doctor included, understood that decision. You’re right, it’s very hard to stand up for yourself when you’re sick. Most of us need strong advocates to do some of the work because we just aren’t able to ourselves. I recommend people go into ECT with a plan, ie, what you do or don’t want before you start so people know. You can change you mind, of course, but thinking about it ahead of time, I think, is a good idea.
I’m not sure I would do it again either. I completely understand being anti-ECT for you. That’s an entirely reasonable position for any given person. No treatment is right for everyone.
– Natasha Tracy
Hi Natasha,
Thanks for another blog well done by you.
More importantly as opposed to many of the Internet blogging sites I’ve come to read through the years is your ability to present a more balanced and unbiased perspective of controversial subject matter.
Bravo to you and your efforts to inform reasonably.
Warmly,
Herb
vnsdepression@gmail.com
http://www.vnstherapy-herb.blogspot.com
Thanks for the high compliment, Herb. I do try.
– Natasha Tracy
I wrote on ECT awhile back in anticipation of FDA Hearings http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dj-jaffe/fda-may-let-religion-and-_b_803051.html
Yes, of course the FDA didn’t decide much at all. They pretty much just stalled. But the data that came out of the meeting was really valuable.
– Natasha
And also I thought it was a preferred treatment for elderly who can’t tolerate strong meds. Yes? No? tx
You know more than me. I thought the 80% success rate he quoted was likely overstated, but don’t have research to back that up. Thoughts? I also thought that ECT was a preferred treatment for pregnant women who don’t want to ingest medications. Is that still true? Thanks.
Hi DJ Jaffee,
Success rate varies depending on what you’re treating, but the number really is near 80% in the treatment of depression according to the major literature review conducted by the FDA last year. Catatonia actually has an even higher success rate.
ECT is often preferred during pregnancy and in the elderly, you’re correct about that due to the difficulties in medicating those populations. I will say though, research on these populations is scarce.
– Natasha Tracy